The Exclusivity of Christianity: Myth or Reality

[MJFlores]

It is a very Christian characteristic to focus and emphasise points of difference. Many Christians I come across, do this. No sooner have I mentioned the word Baha'i than the Christian is looking for the areas of disagreement so they can satisfy themselves that the Baha'i faith is false and fell good about their own (perceived superior) view.

The main problems with this approach:
- It causes division amongst Christians who of course understand the bible differently.
- It leads to Christians being less inclined to associate with others who they view as different and deficient.
- The standards that each Christian uses are not necessarily any more true or correct than the principles they reject in others belief systems.

I prefer to focus on the vast areas of agreement.

- We believe in an Omnipotent, All-Powerful God.
- God has created the universe and all that exists
- God has qualities of Love and Justice
- God is concerned for His creation
- Man is a special part of His creation and we have been created in His image
- God out of concern for His creation and humanity has guided us through Great Teachers and/or prophets
- One of those Great/Teachers or Prophets (Jesus) is exalted above all humans
- God expects us to make a great effort to live in accordance with His teachings and to have Faith in Jesus
- The OT prophets have provided God's guidance to the Jewish peoples
- The Bible has a record of Jesus, the apostles, and the OT prophets
- Jesus, the apostles, and the OT prophets we guided by God's unerring spirit
- The Bible should be considered authentic and authoritative
- We should love God with all our being and love our neighbours and enemies as Jesus taught
- We should forgive others
- We should be good as God is good
- We believe that we have a soul and that there is an afterlife
- We believe that evil is a real problem
- We believe that Christ promised He would return and spoke of the signs that would accompany His Return.
- The Returned Christ will bring in a new age or era in human history.
- Jesus is the 'Son of God'
- 'Salvation' is intimately associated with Christ.
- Jesus was crucified
- His sacrifice enabled our salvation
- The resurrection is a concept/reality of profound significance and importance

Well, what my Lord Jesus said is what my Lord Jesus said.

Matthew 7:15-23 New International Version (NIV)

“Watch out for false prophets.

They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day,

‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

If we are careful in what we eat, use in this everyday temporal life - how much more should we be careful with regards to what we believe in? It will spell eternal life or eternal punishment - at the end of time.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well, what my Lord Jesus said is what my Lord Jesus said.

Matthew 7:15-23 New International Version (NIV)

“Watch out for false prophets.

Maybe you need to consider the historic context of the verse you quote? It was a time of Messianic expectation. The Messiah (Christ) had already come. Anyone who was to come after was of curse going to be a false prophet.

This is a different era in history. We all have the duty to both recognise the Messiah and avoid false prophets.

They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

So what is good fruit? The fruits of the spirit of course. What did St Paul say?

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Sounds like the virtues all the major world religions promote.

If we are careful in what we eat, use in this everyday temporal life - how much more should we be careful with regards to what we believe in? It will spell eternal life or eternal punishment - at the end of time.

Religious bigotry, like racism is a world devouring fire!

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:1-3

"Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring fire, whose violence none can quench."
Baha'u'llah

Eliminating Religious Intolerance
Read more at Eliminating Religious Intolerance

 

[MJFlores]

Maybe you need to consider the historic context of the verse you quote? It was a time of Messianic expectation. The Messiah (Christ) had already come. Anyone who was to come after was of curse going to be a false prophet.

This is a different era in history. We all have the duty to both recognise the Messiah and avoid false prophets.

So what is good fruit? The fruits of the spirit of course. What did St Paul say?

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Sounds like the virtues all the major world religions promote.

Religious bigotry, like racism is a world devouring fire!

Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:1-3

"Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring fire, whose violence none can quench."
Baha'u'llah

Eliminating Religious Intolerance
Read more at Eliminating Religious Intolerance

Yes that is what the Baha'i Faith is promoting.

The Bahá'í Faith (Persian: بهائی‎‎ Bahā'i) is a monotheistic religion that emphasizes the spiritual unity of all humankind. Three core principles establish a basis forBahá'í teachings and doctrine: the unity of God, the unity of religion, and the unity of humanity.

It's lovely and Utopian.

This is a different era in history.

A different era? What is this era?

I think the bible says we are in the last days:

2 Timothy 3:1-5 New International Version (NIV)

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

We are witnesses to these events, aren't we? And among these is people who have a form of religiousness but denies its power - I say false prophets and teachers wouldn't you think?

There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven. Luke 21:11

USGS (@USGS) | Twitter

It is nice to be in a bus with love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance - enjoying the sights until...

Things predicted in the bible starts unfolding.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes that is what the Baha'i Faith is promoting.

The Bahá'í Faith (Persian: بهائی‎‎ Bahā'i) is a monotheistic religion that emphasizes the spiritual unity of all humankind. Three core principles establish a basis forBahá'í teachings and doctrine: the unity of God, the unity of religion, and the unity of humanity.

It's lovely and Utopian.



A different era? What is this era?

I think the bible says we are in the last days:

2 Timothy 3:1-5 New International Version (NIV)

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

We are witnesses to these events, aren't we? And among these is people who have a form of religiousness but denies its power - I say false prophets and teachers wouldn't you think?

There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven. Luke 21:11

USGS (@USGS) | Twitter

It is nice to be in a bus with love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance - enjoying the sights until...

Things predicted in the bible starts unfolding.

its important to remember that the flood in the time of Noah happened after Noah had warned His people. Similarly Christ prophecises the tribulations that will happen to the Jewish people with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, then the diaspora. This was a consequence of failing to heed Christ's admonitions. Jesus speaks of the end of an era for the Jewsih people, and the beginning of a new era, which marked the ascendancy of Christ's teachings. That era has now ended and a new one has begun. The characteristics of the new era will include some of the teachings of the Baha'i Faith you listed. These were not part of the Christian era. The tribulations that have happened and will continue to happen are on account of humanities failure to heed the admonitions and warnings of Baha'u'llah, just like in the days of Noah and Christ.

 

[omega2xx]

It is important to recognise, the problem isn't the Bible, it is us! That is why there is division amongst Christians and we are not in agreement.

Conservative Christians will agree on at least 90% of the basic doctrines spelled out in th Bible.

The only nails and coffin here are the ones you imagine.

We need to understand what is meant by heaven. It is the invisible realm where heaven exists, rather than up in the physical sky, where it clearly doesn't.

Since the bounderys of the heavens is unknown, heaven could be up there somewhere. The gates made of pearls will be visible.

Where did Jesus come from? Heaven of course.

John 3:13, John 6:38, John 6:41-2

Did He literally descend from the sky to enter Mary's womb? I don't think so. Nor should we/QUOTE]expect His descent from the literal clouds of heaven.

At last an area of agreement.



That's what the Jews think about the NT.



To know and worship God

Pretty close to what Presbyterians says it is---To glorify God and fully enjoy Him forever.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Conservative Christians will agree on at least 90% of the basic doctrines spelled out in th Bible.

What about the liberal Christians though?

Since the bounderys of the heavens is unknown, heaven could be up there somewhere. The gates made of pearls will be visible.

I would prefer to consider heaven being part of the invisible realm rather than the phenomenal world.

Pretty close to what Presbyterians says it is---To glorify God and fully enjoy Him forever..

That is good to find some agreement then.

 

[omega2xx]

What about the liberal Christians though?

When it comes to the Bible, liberal theology is a joke. They do not believe most of the Bible.

I would prefer to consider heaven being part of the invisible realm rather than the phenomenal world.

It certainly won't be invisible to those when are there. It has gates, rivers and trees and mansions.

Why do you think it will be invisible?

 

[Muffled]

It is also supposed to be the nature of Christianity not to judge as that belongs to God alone.



Yet the Gospel of John offers a different answer. John’s Gospel does not see Jesus’ death as a ransom nor does it use the language of sacrifice or atonement. There is instead emphasis on friendship, intimacy, mutuality, service, faithful love—revealing God’s desire and gift for the full flourishing of humanity, or in other words, salvation. The question; Would the Son of God have become incarnated if humanity had not sinned?

I believe having God in me gives me the ability and the authority to judge.

I don't see that it does.

I believe that is the null hypothesis. One has to prove there is a reason why he should have mentioned it.

I believe that makes sense because one does not flourish if one is not saved from sin.

According to Krishna God likes to incarnate but I take what he says with a grain of salt.

 

[Muffled]

Christians? Which one?

• World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford University Press, 1982) apparently estimated almost 21,000 denominations, and the updated World Christian Encyclopedia (Barrett, Kurian, Johnson; Oxford Univ Press, 2nd edition, 2001) estimated at least 33,000. “Denomination” is defined as “an organised christian group within a country”.

• The Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary estimated 34,000 denominations in 2000, rising to an estimated 43,000 in 2012. These numbers have exploded from 1,600 in the year 1900.

33,000-43,000 different Christian faiths - I don't think all are going up. I believe my Lord Jesus saves and he will save his church. Ephesians 5:27-29

This is how it works - at the end of the world.

1. Jesus returns, saves those people who are in him (dead and alive) 1 Thessalonians 4:17
2. The people of the Earth mourns Matthew 24:30
3. God wrath follows until the earth is bare. 2 Peter 3:10
4. Satan is defeated, false prophet and the beast thrown to the lake of fire. People who did not share the first resurrection are judged, those who did not pass thrown to the lake of fire. Revelation 21:8
5. Death also thrown to the lake of fire 1 Corinthians 15:26
6. Those who are saved, will enjoy eternal life. Revelation 21:4

Is salvation exclusive for all Christian faiths no matter how different each and every denominations and sects believe in? I think, there will be a reckoning - Matt 7:21-23

I believe the SBC might fit.

I believe the dead can't be saved from dieing because they are already dead. I suppose one could say they are saved from not having another life but I believe they would have had one anyway. Both are saved from having to endure evil since there isn't any in the Kingdom of God.

I believe that is stretching the verse a bit. It is a general statement not one that says all will melt.

I believe it says after a thousand years.

 

[Muffled]

So its not just the Christian exclusivity, but exclusive Christians amidst the Christians.

I believe some of the Universalists believe everyone will be saved. Some of them believe we will save ourselves.

 

[pearl]

I believe having God in me gives me the ability and the authority to judge.

You see an equality with God?

 

[CG Didymus]

Some Christians belief that there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus.

This could mean only Christians make it to heaven and people of all other faiths are destined for hell.

One of the most commonly quoted passages from the bible to justify this view is: John 14:6

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

What's the best way of looking at this passage?

Is their reasonable justification for Christians' claims that only their faith can save? Is there a better way of understanding salvation?

Adrian, after all this, I just realized the Baha'i Faith is just as "exclusive" as Christianity. Just like Christians say they believe in the Scriptures and God of the Jews, they then change everything to make their religion the only true one.

Baha'is have done the same thing, except with all the major religions. If a religion teaches reincarnation, they are wrong. If they don't recognize other "manifestations", they are wrong. If they believe in Satan and hell, and Jesus as God, they are wrong. Every other religion is wrong. You and the Baha'i Faith are ultimately saying that you're the only one right.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Adrian, after all this, I just realized the Baha'i Faith is just as "exclusive" as Christianity. Just like Christians say they believe in the Scriptures and God of the Jews, they then change everything to make their religion the only true one.

Baha'is have done the same thing, except with all the major religions. If a religion teaches reincarnation, they are wrong. If they don't recognize other "manifestations", they are wrong. If they believe in Satan and hell, and Jesus as God, they are wrong. Every other religion is wrong. You and the Baha'i Faith are ultimately saying that you're the only one right.

In a sense you are correct. To put it in Christian terms "Man needs every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4)

If we consider the first verses of the Kitab-i-Aqdas (the Most Holy Book considered to be the most important of Baha'u'llah's work and a charter for a future civilisation):

The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 330-333

 

[CG Didymus]

In a sense you are correct. To put it in Christian terms "Man needs every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4)

If we consider the first verses of the Kitab-i-Aqdas (the Most Holy Book considered to be the most important of Baha'u'llah's work and a charter for a future civilisation):

The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 330-333

Now that's what I'm talking about. Lay it on the line."whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed."

So no matter how good a Buddhist or Christian or Jew or whatever... If the person doesn't recognize that Baha'u'llah is the promised one of their religion... they have gone "astray". So, in a "sense" I'm correct? It sounds like that is exactly what's at stake here... and all your other threads. If people don't accept and see that Baha'u'llah is who he says he is... They've missed the boat... Ooh, that's so symbolic of Noah's boat.

So what happens in a Baha'i world? You just let these people keep practicing their ancient, outdated religions?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Now that's what I'm talking about. Lay it on the line."whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed."

So no matter how good a Buddhist or Christian or Jew or whatever... If the person doesn't recognize that Baha'u'llah is the promised one of their religion... they have gone "astray". So, in a "sense" I'm correct? It sounds like that is exactly what's at stake here... and all your other threads. If people don't accept and see that Baha'u'llah is who he says he is... They've missed the boat... Ooh, that's so symbolic of Noah's boat.

So what happens in a Baha'i world? You just let these people keep practicing their ancient, outdated religions?

There has to be freedom of religion, plain and simple. Whether or not the Baha'i faith is from God, time will tell. I think in the future practicing a religion like Christianity that is no longer suited to current times won't make sense to most people.

Joking aside I like the symbolism with Noah's Ark. The protection from the tribulations (flood) of these times, is living the life in accordance with God's laws.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Some Christians belief that there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus.

This could mean only Christians make it to heaven and people of all other faiths are destined for hell.

One of the most commonly quoted passages from the bible to justify this view is: John 14:6

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

What's the best way of looking at this passage?

Is their reasonable justification for Christians' claims that only their faith can save? Is there a better way of understanding salvation?

It depends on what you mean by exclusive. Job was not a Jewish person, Melchizedek was not, God may work many and surprising ways
But the Bible does speak of people being saved if and only if they have their names in the lamb's book of life and are in the new Jerusalem if they had their robes washed in the blood of the lamb

 

[Muffled]

You see an equality with God?

I believe God is always equal to Himself.

 

[Muffled]

Adrian, after all this, I just realized the Baha'i Faith is just as "exclusive" as Christianity. Just like Christians say they believe in the Scriptures and God of the Jews, they then change everything to make their religion the only true one.

Baha'is have done the same thing, except with all the major religions. If a religion teaches reincarnation, they are wrong. If they don't recognize other "manifestations", they are wrong. If they believe in Satan and hell, and Jesus as God, they are wrong. Every other religion is wrong. You and the Baha'i Faith are ultimately saying that you're the only one right.

I believe I would have no problem having a Baha'i as a Christian but I don't think an SBC church would welcome him as a member.

 

[Muffled]

There has to be freedom of religion, plain and simple. Whether or not the Baha'i faith is from God, time will tell. I think in the future practicing a religion like Christianity that is no longer suited to current times won't make sense to most people.

Joking aside I like the symbolism with Noah's Ark. The protection from the tribulations (flood) of these times, is living the life in accordance with God's laws.

I believe Christianity is best suited for these end times which is why we didn't get it sooner. I believe Baha'ism is just as archaic as Judaism and Islam. I believe most people have trouble telling their left hand from their right. Not only that they believe their nonsense makes sense.

Oh well then KYAGB because you don't qualify.

 

[metis]

I believe Christianity is best suited for these end times which is why we didn't get it sooner. I believe Baha'ism is just as archaic as Judaism and Islam. I believe most people have trouble telling their left hand from their right. Not only that they believe their nonsense makes sense.

How do you know that it's not the other way around?

One person's "reality" is another person's "nonsense". In the arena of religion, one cannot categorically prove another person wrong, nor can they categorically prove themselves right. Beliefs are just beliefs-- not absolute facts.