The Exclusivity of Christianity: Myth or Reality

[Muffled]

There are scripture that indicate despite the Jews rejection of their Messiah, the issue of whether or not they are saved is not the main concern - see Romans 9, Romans 11, Mark 3:28-30, Zechariah 14:1-8, and Isaiah 8:14-16

I don't believe I see any evidence of this. You will need to point it out specifically.

Although salvation is a sine que non, becoming children of God is also necessary. Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Muffled]

Not all Christians believe this.

I believe then that they are only saying they are Christian. Possibly I could consider them apostate.

 

[pearl]

I believe then that they are only saying they are Christian. Possibly I could consider them apostate.

A term often used by fundamentalists against other Christians.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I believe Krishna was a false prophet because he did not always speak the truth.

I believe the Sun is the most relevant star in our sky but certainly not the only one.

I believe God qualifies as greater than His prophets.

I believe that is fantasy on your part. Protestants go by the Bible which stands as the truth of God about the matter.

I believe it is a natural tendency but not all clergy teach that and not all religious people believe it. I was never taught it and do not believe it now. However before Jesus turned me around I thought being Baptist was the only worthwhile thing to be. I wasn't taught that but I think it was natural like rooting for the home team.

When the Bible says the Word was with God from the beginning it is referring to all the Manifestations of God including Krishna, Moses, Christ and the Fatyer, Baha'u'llah, Who was the One spoken of by Christ.

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus summed it all up when He said that there were many things He wanted to explain to His disciples but they had not the capacity to understand it then however in the future people would and He would send Someone to explain all truth.

That we believe is Baha'u'llah Who has come to separate myth from reality, truth from falsehood. Consult His Writings and you can be sure as to what is correct and what is simply fantasy.

To answer briefly. The creation and flood stories were symbolical not actual occurrences as well as the crossing of the Red Sea to throw in another one.

Any religion that doesnt teach only one God is not religion as the Prophets teach. The sacraments and rituals of all religions were never inaugurated by God but came about by man.

By the Christian myth I mean that they worship the personality of Jesus like an idol instead of the truth within Him. Instead of worshipping the light they worship the lamp so when God sent another Manifestation they rejected Him because of His outward difference to Jesus.

The myth is that Jesus is the only way exclusively, when many other Manifestations said the same before Him so it's like the sun saying I'm the only sun in the sky which is correct but then if it said I am the sun of Monday or the sun of Tuesday it would also be correct, so Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad and all the prophets were the different Days but the SAME sun shining.

So if a religion doesn't teach "only one God" it was from man and not God? So any religion that has multiple gods is false? What about religions that have an evil lesser god? And, what about religions that have one God, but have some man-made ideas and spiritual concepts added?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So if a religion doesn't teach "only one God" it was from man and not God? So any religion that has multiple gods is false? What about religions that have an evil lesser god? And, what about religions that have one God, but have some man-made ideas and spiritual concepts added?

What is true religion is taught us by the Manifestations of God when they appear. As each religion decays and man made ideas water down the original teachings, another Manifestation appears to renew and cleanse religion and so on.

Baha'u'llah tells us in His Writings that all the Prophets taught only One God and all else are man made or have fallen into error.

We accept Him as the Manifestation of God for this age.

 

[CG Didymus]

What is true religion is taught us by the Manifestations of God when they appear. As each religion decays and man made ideas water down the original teachings, another Manifestation appears to renew and cleanse religion and so on.

Baha'u'llah tells us in His Writings that all the Prophets taught only One God and all else are man made or have fallen into error.

We accept Him as the Manifestation of God for this age.

No, no, no, there was no decay. Christianity had to be wrong from the start. Every fundamental "truth" from the NT is based on Paul, the Apostles, the gospels and supposedly Jesus himself. Baha'i are challenging those teachings. Man made teachings and interpretations did come into play and that's why the Protestant Reformation. But didn't they get their teachings directly from the NT? I think so.

But, like I've said before, Christians did the same things to the Jews. Whatever is clearly stated in their Scriptures has been turned around and re-interpreted to fit the Christian mold. It doesn't matter if God said, if Moses said it or whoever. The claim that a new message has come to replace the old is used over and over again. God's message and plan are revised. Why? If God has laws that go out of date, then what? Why obey them if tomorrow they're going to change. And like I've said many times... I'd hate to have been the last poor guy that got stoned for collecting fire wood on the Sabbath. Or, the last guy burned at the stake for not believing in the Trinity... Or, the poor people fed to the lions for believing Jesus. If it was only an allegory why get killed over it? After all, all religions are one.

So either the NT is the truth and Christianity is the exclusive way to God, or it's allegory, a myth and who knows or who cares what it teaches.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No, no, no, there was no decay. Christianity had to be wrong from the start. Every fundamental "truth" from the NT is based on Paul, the Apostles, the gospels and supposedly Jesus himself. Baha'i are challenging those teachings. Man made teachings and interpretations did come into play and that's why the Protestant Reformation. But didn't they get their teachings directly from the NT? I think so.

But, like I've said before, Christians did the same things to the Jews. Whatever is clearly stated in their Scriptures has been turned around and re-interpreted to fit the Christian mold. It doesn't matter if God said, if Moses said it or whoever. The claim that a new message has come to replace the old is used over and over again. God's message and plan are revised. Why? If God has laws that go out of date, then what? Why obey them if tomorrow they're going to change. And like I've said many times... I'd hate to have been the last poor guy that got stoned for collecting fire wood on the Sabbath. Or, the last guy burned at the stake for not believing in the Trinity... Or, the poor people fed to the lions for believing Jesus. If it was only an allegory why get killed over it? After all, all religions are one.

So either the NT is the truth and Christianity is the exclusive way to God, or it's allegory, a myth and who knows or who cares what it teaches.

Religious truth is relative not absolute. And for it to be truth it needs to be relevant for the age in which it was revealed. The spiritual truths in each religion are eternal. Laws such as love thy neighbor never die. But the social laws change according to the needs of the time.

Christ said He had many things to say to His disciples but they wouldn't be able to comprehend them however in the future the Spirit of Truth would explain everything. Can you imagine Christ trying to teach His disciples about world unity or world peace when the world,had not been discovered or the technologies such as world communications and the internet were nowhere on the horizon?

That is why He said He would return. And He did. When Baha'u'llah came He brought teachings and an administration relevant for this age.

Man made doctrines were introduced but what killed Christianity in the end was literal interpretations which split them into thousands of sects, unable to reconcile the meanings of the gospels with each other.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't believe I see any evidence of this. You will need to point it out specifically.

Although salvation is a sine que non, becoming children of God is also necessary. Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

As a starting point I've included material posted on this thread earlier.

St Paul has written when speaking of the Jews and Gentiles:

" For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes." Romans 11:25-28

I have highlighted some of the key verses. We also have a sense of Gods plan for both the Jews and Gentiles.

This separation between Jews and the Gentiles has been clearly foretold in the prophetic references from Isaiah and Zechariah I provided you.

And Jesus indicated forgiveness towards those that would do harms as follows:

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." Matthew 12:30-31

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots." Luke 23:34

We know of course the punishment the Jews and the fate of the Jews as they were deprived of the wisdom of their Messiah as they were to be dispersed after the destruction of their temple and Jerusalem and cast away from their homeland.

This punishment does not deny they are still Gods chosen people, but they were NOT cast into Hell.

They did after all still have the Mosaic Teachings in their midst, a Mighty Covenant sent by a Mighty God.

Within His teachings is the greatest commandment!

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:"

I believe the Jews will be the first as a Nation to recognise His second coming. That's another story.

I hope this helps. For one individual or a group to regards the other as damned has major problems for all sorts of reasons and is contrary to what Christ taught. HIs is a message of love and peace, is it not?

 

[CG Didymus]

Religious truth is relative not absolute. And for it to be truth it needs to be relevant for the age in which it was revealed. The spiritual truths in each religion are eternal. Laws such as love thy neighbor never die. But the social laws change according to the needs of the time.

Christ said He had many things to say to His disciples but they wouldn't be able to comprehend them however in the future the Spirit of Truth would explain everything. Can you imagine Christ trying to teach His disciples about world unity or world peace when the world,had not been discovered or the technologies such as world communications and the internet were nowhere on the horizon?

That is why He said He would return. And He did. When Baha'u'llah came He brought teachings and an administration relevant for this age.

Man made doctrines were introduced but what killed Christianity in the end was literal interpretations which split them into thousands of sects, unable to reconcile the meanings of the gospels with each other.

Hmmm, a literal interpretation is wrong. Religious truth is not absolute but changes. Like I said, I'd hate to have been the last person stoned to death for collecting firewood on the Sabbath. Those stoners should have known that the Sabbath laws were only temporary.

But still, the NT... can't trust it, can't understand it's true "allegorical" meaning until the Baha'i Faith told me what it really meant. That's strange. "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved"? I knew that was a lot of hooey. Believe all religions are one, just don't believe them too literal... now that's a truth I can believe. But... even the Baha'i Faith? I can "spiritualize" a few things I don't like?

Now just for fun, let me ask this for the umpteenth time, did Christianity, even from the beginning, ever teach the truth?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hmmm, a literal interpretation is wrong. Religious truth is not absolute but changes. Like I said, I'd hate to have been the last person stoned to death for collecting firewood on the Sabbath. Those stoners should have known that the Sabbath laws were only temporary.

But still, the NT... can't trust it, can't understand it's true "allegorical" meaning until the Baha'i Faith told me what it really meant. That's strange. "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved"? I knew that was a lot of hooey. Believe all religions are one, just don't believe them too literal... now that's a truth I can believe. But... even the Baha'i Faith? I can "spiritualize" a few things I don't like?

Now just for fun, let me ask this for the umpteenth time, did Christianity, even from the beginning, ever teach the truth?

We do need a sense of humor in dealing with these things as religious fanaticism is worse than having no religion at all.

Did Christianity ever teach the truth? Sure it did - love. The stone throwing usually comes from fanatics who can't accept change or advancement.

The Prophets of God are always tortured and persecuted because they come to bring change and advancement.

Most people see change as threatening, especially religious fanatics. Even scientists were persecuted because they brought true new ideas to a generation that was fanatical and closed minded.

And so it will be. Whenever we have new ideas there is always a group who wants to control and doesn't want to let go and sees new ideas as a threat.

Bahá'í's will also be persecuted worldwide when the time comes because when we grow large enough and are different enough from the rest, we will be seen as a threat to those who want to stay in the dark ages and not move on.

 

[CG Didymus]

We do need a sense of humor in dealing with these things as religious fanaticism is worse than having no religion at all.

Did Christianity ever teach the truth? Sure it did - love. The stone throwing usually comes from fanatics who can't accept change or advancement.

The Prophets of God are always tortured and persecuted because they come to bring change and advancement.

Most people see change as threatening, especially religious fanatics. Even scientists were persecuted because they brought true new ideas to a generation that was fanatical and closed minded.

And so it will be. Whenever we have new ideas there is always a group who wants to control and doesn't want to let go and sees new ideas as a threat.

Bahá'í's will also be persecuted worldwide when the time comes because when we grow large enough and are different enough from the rest, we will be seen as a threat to those who want to stay in the dark ages and not move on.

So Christianity taught love? And that's something new and special? What about salvation and forgiveness from sins by believing in Jesus? That without Jesus a person will be sent to hell? Doesn't the NT teach that? And, from the beginning, isn't that what Christians taught? Which, if the Baha'is are right, is wrong, right?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So Christianity taught love? And that's something new and special? What about salvation and forgiveness from sins by believing in Jesus? That without Jesus a person will be sent to hell? Doesn't the NT teach that? And, from the beginning, isn't that what Christians taught? Which, if the Baha'is are right, is wrong, right?

There's nothing we would not agree with in the NT. We just understand it differently. Of course salvation is attained by believing in not only Christ but in all the Prophets. To reject one is to reject all of them according to Baha'u'llah.

Hell is to be far from God so disbelieving in any of God's Prophets is a form of hell but it is a condition not a place.

 

[rusra02]

Jesus spoke of his Father as "the only true God." (John 17:3) It makes sense to me that if there is a true God, the other gods being worshipped are false gods. It also seems logical that the true God would reveal himself and his purposes to his worshippers, giving them directions as to how to worship him acceptably. (John 4:23,24) To have God's favor, I believe we must know the truth about God and Jesus, and practice it. Concerning Jesus, Acts 4:12 says; "there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." While God never has and never will torment people in hellfire, I believe he will hold each of us accountable for what we do or fail to do. (Hebrews 4:13)

 

[Dawnofhope]

Jesus spoke of his Father as "the only true God." (John 17:3) It makes sense to me that if there is a true God, the other gods being worshipped are false gods. It also seems logical that the true God would reveal himself and his purposes to his worshippers, giving them directions as to how to worship him acceptably. (John 4:23,24) To have God's favor, I believe we must know the truth about God and Jesus, and practice it. Concerning Jesus, Acts 4:12 says; "there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." While God never has and never will torment people in hellfire, I believe he will hold each of us accountable for what we do or fail to do. (Hebrews 4:13)

Lets consider the context of John 14:6

Jesus is speaking to His disciples who of course are all, like Jesus are all Jews. He has just informed them of His impending martyrdom. They are distraught and He is comforting them. When He says "I am the way, the truth, the light, nobody goes to the Father except through me" He is reiterating that He is the Promised One that the Jews have been waiting for and they need to turn to Him, not to another.

The world of the Jews did not even remotely approach the type of global vision that we have now. The Jews' world vision was confined to surrounding regions throughout the Middle East and what was in the Tanakh. Most Jews were illiterate and relied on religious teachers for instruction.

It must be stated that in no way was Jesus referring to other religions. For example Islam would not come for nearly 600 years. Buddhism and Hinduism although present in India/Asia were unknown to the Jews.

Jesus is also indicating that He will be the new focal point for worship rather than the Temple. This becomes apparent with considering the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24), John 2:19-21, and Revelation 21:22

There are scripture that indicate despite the Jews rejection of their Messiah, the issue of whether or not they are saved is not the main concern - see Romans Chapter 9 and 11 and Mark 3:28-30

It all comes down to interpretation of scripture. Christianity is so divided and has so many different understandings. One person or group understands the bible differently from another. One group insists that their way is the only way to see it. Then they start to see the other group as being misguided heretics, morally deficient, unreasonable, and spiritually blind. They start accusing the other of removing parts of the bible to suit themselves, to twist the words of God, and so it goes. We don't have bloodshed with masses of people dying in the name of Christianity like bygone ages but we have animosity and misunderstanding in the name of God. What loving and just God would expect a reasonable person to persist with such a religion let alone believe in Him?

"Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish from the face of the earth, give birth to spirituality, and bring life and light to each heart. If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division, it were better to be without it, and to withdraw from such a religion would be a truly religious act. For it is clear that the purpose of a remedy is to cure; but if the remedy should only aggravate the complaint it had better be left alone. Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion. All the holy prophets were as doctors to the soul; they gave prescriptions for the healing of mankind; thus any remedy that causes disease does not come from the great and supreme Physician." Baha'i writings

 

[rusra02]

Certainly the Jews in Jesus day knew the Law strictly forbade them from worshipping any God but Jehovah. Jesus himself turned down Satan's temptation by quoting that law. (Matthew 4:10) The first century Christians were united in their worship after Jesus died and was resurrected, and had poured out God's holy spirit on pentecost. But Jesus had warned his apostles that apostasy from true Christianity would occur. (Matthew 13:36-43) I believe the thousands of sects claiming to be "Christian" is the result of this falling away from true worship.
Rather than look for true worship apart from Christ, I believe we should use the powerful magnet of God's word, the Bible, to find the proverbial needle (true Christians) in the haystack of falsely professed Christians. (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[Dawnofhope]

But Jesus had warned his apostles that apostasy from true Christianity would occur. (Matthew 13:36-43) I believe the thousands of sects claiming to be "Christian" is the result of this falling away from true worship.

I agree that these verses warn about the existence of false beliefs mixed in with the true beliefs. There are many reasons why Christianity finds itself in its current predicament. Consider this verse from Baha'u'llah:

The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it?

It is not just Christianity that is in crisis but all the major world religions. Maybe we shouldn't be so 'Christianity' centred in our world view?

Rather than look for true worship apart from Christ, I believe we should use the powerful magnet of God's word, the Bible, to find the proverbial needle (true Christians) in the haystack of falsely professed Christians. (Matthew 7:21-23)

I think its going to be a hard sell presenting the JWs as the true Christians. What makes you guys so good and the other Christians so bad?

 

[omega2xx]

I agree that these verses warn about the existence of false beliefs mixed in with the true beliefs. There are many reasons why Christianity finds itself in its current predicament. Consider this verse from Baha'u'llah:

The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it?

It is not just Christianity that is in crisis but all the major world religions. Maybe we shouldn't be so 'Christianity' centred in our world view?

Maybe we should be more Christianity centered in our world view. If the teachings of Jesus will not cure us, nothing will.

Of course the Bible teaches apostasy is coming and it started years ago. There is always hope God will send revival and things will get better for a while. The OT shows us that even when Israel sinned greatly, God always called them back, but if the Bible is right, and it always is, one day Jesus will return and then it will be too late.

 

[Dawnofhope]

one day Jesus will return and then it will be too late.

Thank you for your post Omega. Have you ever contemplated that He may have already? The Jews missed the signs of His first coming. In a similar manner the Christians may have missed the signs and He has already returned?

Only the returned Christ can redeem a distracted and broken world. Christianity appears to have strayed too far from the teachings of Christ to make sufficient difference.

 

[omega2xx]

Thank you for your post Omega. Have you ever contemplated that He may have already? The Jews missed the signs of His first coming. In a similar manner the Christians may have missed the signs and He has already returned?

When He returns it will be obvious. Many signs in the sky predicted in Revelation will be fulfilled. Teh Messianic prophecies not fulfilled at His first coming will be fulfilled and the Mt of olives will lbe split in two(Zech 14:4). IMO the temple must also be rebuilt, but I have not decided f that is a reference to the literal temple of the spiritual temple or Christians---Christins arer the Temple of the temple of God(I Cor 3:13). I lean towrd it being a literal, physical temple.

Only the returned Christ can redeem a distracted and broken world.

Then why worship Buddah?

Christianity appears to have strayed too far from the teachings of Christ to make sufficient difference.

Don't paint all Christians with that brush. That is not true of conservative Christianity. It is not up to us to change the world, It is up to us to be good witnesses to the world and show them the advantages of serveint the living and only true God .

The first question in the Presbyterian catechism is "What is the chief end of man?" What would Buddha say it is?