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Featured The evidence for the resurection of Jesus

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by leroy, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Okay, that is worded a bit better. "May be possible" would have been even better.
     
  2. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    Ok what I mean is that there is no conclusive evidence against the existence of God.

    If my wording was poor what combination of words do you think would have been more appropriate?
     
  3. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    With that clarification, do you still disagree with point 1 in the OP)
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Believing in God doesn't go against believing in science. God created science. Does Science Preclude The Existence Of God? | Reasons for Jesus

     
  5. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Obviously not. Without proper training in the subject, such "research" articles published has no validity.
    Your example is wrong. Here the case is more like someone with a doctoral thesis on English literature is publishing articles on Japanese architecture.
    A person with doctoral degree in philosophy or divinity has no expertise relevant for doing research on topics of history.
     
  6. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that you are making the unsupported assumption that they didn’t had “proper training”

    Which is ridiculous because in order to publish and pass the peer review process by definition you have to have “proper training”
     
  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    No you do not have to have any training if you are publishing in fake research journals. A journal of fake history run by fake historians will obviously accept fake historical work done by such fake historians.
    This journal in which that article was, published is run by an editor named Robert L Webb who.. surprise... also has no degree in history.
    The basic point is this... This entire field of Jesus history is a pseudo historical discipline run primarily by Christian divinity scholars with no actual expertise in history at all. They run their own journals and peer review each other. This is fine if they are doing hermeneutics and discussing theological topics, but is NOT FINE, if they start making claims on history. History is not theology, history is not literary analysis. So nothing of what they say regarding historicity can be regarded as valid... at least non Christians.
    For example, here is John P Meier, often consider a leading figure in historical Jesus field. His degree: doctorate in sacred literature from a divinity school. He may be an expert in Biblical literature . but he has no expertise in determining historicity of events depicted in the said literature. That is the province of experts of history, with doctorates in history. This is the main reason why nothing here has any validity.
    John P. - Meier | Department of Theology | University of Notre Dame
     
  8. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    Ok in that case you have to show that the 1500 scholars in the poll, where guys who publish in “fake journals”.
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Christianity doesn't go against science. The book of Job mentions gravity before Isaac Newton mentioned gravity. https://carta.fiu.edu/gsc-creative/2016/04/12/3-scientific-facts-you-never-knew-were-in-the-bible/

     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How would Job have known about gravity at the time? I believe that Job 26:7 mentions gravity. If you study the context of Job 26:7 it shows that gravity is what he was talking about. https://carta.fiu.edu/gsc-creative/2016/04/12/3-scientific-facts-you-never-knew-were-in-the-bible/

     
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    He didn't. By the way, Job is another fictional character of the Bible. But even the fictional Job did not know that.

    In fact those are Flat Earth verses from the Bible. Are you sure that you want to use them?
     
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Scriptures themselves tell us that the earth is round. It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: Isaiah 40:22

    The word translated "circle" here is the Hebrew word chuwg, which is also translated "circuit" or "compass," depending on the context. That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded like a ball, or arched-not something that is flat or square. The book of Isaiah was written around 700 BC. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested, in his book On the Heavens, that the earth might be a sphere.
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No, we went over this a long time ago. How did you forget? The original Hebrew uses a term that describes the Earth as flat in that verse. Not spherical. Please do not conflate being "round" with being a sphere.

    A compass can only draw flat circles.
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Aristotle suggested that the earth might be a sphere by watching masts if ships sink down over the horizon and from the studies of the moon during an eclipse. He perspectively noted the shadow of the earth on the moon revealed that the earth was curved.
     
  17. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Science human theories did not think creation into being

    O planet exists.
    It's heavens exists.
    The garden nature existed.

    Humans theoried a thought just like today about why firm owned presence.

    Is just talking. Is just arguing about a story. Also not actual history which is natural form.

    Humans still suffer stigmata. Proof it happened.
     
  18. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    A journal accepting research articles from divinity scholars regarding history is indulging in pseudo-historical research. Most of these scholars and the associated journals are guilty of this. There is nothing further that needs to be shown.
    In summary I have shown that:-
    1) Most of the scholars in question have no graduate training in history, and are instead trainity in divinity, philosophy or theology.
    2) Without training in history, none of their conclusions regarding historicity of the events depicted in NT books have validity other than being mere opinions of amateur historians. This is regardless of how many articles they wrote and published on this topic in religious and theological journals.
    3) So, there is no obligation on anybody to take the works of any of these scholars as works of valid history.

    Hence the OP is refuted.
     
    #238 sayak83, Apr 17, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
  19. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    A theologian does not question if the religion is real. They start with the assumption it is real. That is the definition of confirmation bias.

    The best possible authority on the NT is Bart Ehrman and Richard Carrier. For Acts it's Richard Purvoe. For the Q gospel it's Goodacre. Another gospel expert is John Dominic Crossan.
    For Moses it's Thomas Thompson.
    Thomas L. Brodie has become an expert on John and Luke and their use of OT narratives.

    If you think an apologist putting together a "study" is the best possible authority then you have no interest in what is actually true.
     
  20. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    aja, can you prove it?

    no you haven't shown that
     
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