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The Evidence for ID THREAD!!

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Fatmop, Apr 20, 2005.

  1. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    So "The Voice of Reason" you say that if he was to come speak to you personally or rise up a family member of yours or appear before you. Ok, lets be logical about this, since you seem to love that so much.



    Oh, would it really? Doctors and such raise people from the dead all the time. People have gone into states where they were medically considered dead, just to wake up or start breathing again. People have seen things in this, amount of time considered dead, and yet are still discredited as nothing special. Would you not just start discrediting this too if someone just woke up in your family? If a family member rising from the dead is all you need, go to Africa. I'm sure their is some religion in Nigeria that practices enough voodoo to do such, but it would probably cost you a few babies... you know, for sacrifices. If God were to just grant your request, out of nothing, would you really listen? Would not the world discredit it? Would you not be considered a fool for believing God did something like that for you? To quote Jesus




    Would you REALY listen?

    Oh and pah, the Bible says "In the Beginning God Created the Heavens and the Earth" Genesis 1:1
    "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
    Since we are not told anything was before and he says he was the first, it is clear that there was nothing before, if taken at face value.
     
  2. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason Doctor of Thinkology

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    Give me one - just one - situation where a doctor has raised a person from the dead. Understand that I am not asking for some anecdotal story about some guy in Papua, New Guinea that appeared to be dead. I want you to provide me with one - just one - case that demonstrates a clear state of death for an individual that was later resurrected.

    TVOR

    PS - quoting Jesus or the Bible to an Atheist (Pah) or an Agnostic (myself) is pointless.

     
  3. Tawn

    Tawn Active Member

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    Hes probably talking about people whos hearts have stopped for a few minutes..
    Im sure Voice of Reason would be suitably impressed if God managed to bring back someone who had been dead - properly dead for a few weeks..
    Why is it that all fortuitous events are seen as Gods work? Its rather suspect that God always seems to act within the boundaries of science.
     
  4. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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  5. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    Oh, and it's not from Papua, New Guinea; just like you wanted.
     
  6. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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  7. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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  8. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    What, no comments? Tawn? The Voice of Reason?
     
  9. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    I'll tell you what I noticed - this thread is straying from it's original topic and many have contributed to that.

    Second, the examples Passerbye linked were anecdotal - never a good source of truth.

    This topic of coming back from the dead should be the basis of another thread.
     
  10. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    Anecdotal. Okay, would you like more than. I can try to find ones less "anecdotal" for you.
    Is this not "The Evidence for ID THREAD!!" thread?
     
  11. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    No! You are talking about an individual dying and returning not about the begginning of life.

    Start another thread when you find better evidence.
     
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  12. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    As you wish.
     
  13. Tawn

    Tawn Active Member

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    Passerbye.. post those examples to a new thread.. ill look over them properly some time.. I read the first one and it sounds very unconvincing.. ;) I know you said we'd laugh - but it seems deliberately contrived to 'scare' people into worshipping Christ. But lets stay on topic.

    In another thead (the should creationism be taught in schools thread) ES said this:


    Could it be that there is no evidence for ID? Or is ES mistaken?
     
  14. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Hi Tawn,
    I may be completely wrong, but for me, the proof of ID is in what is around you, in the world, the universe. Nothing comes out of 'nothingness' - perhaps it's some form of 'cop-out', but my views are that someone/thing did design the whole start up sequence of the universe - simply because of the above point - about there needing to have been a start to it all. From then, evolution took off (well, that's the way I see it) - it is the only exp[lanation, for me, that answers "where did everything actually start ?" - it seems to be the most logical answer.:)
     
  15. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    I believe there is evidence for ID, however, (just like with evolution) we need to look harder to find
    pure evidence. Untill then, it's just partly speculation, and ways to look at data from different angles.
    Well, If I created rules to a world, and wasn't trying to get "everyone" to believe in the miraculous things I do, I would do the same.
     
  16. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    Actualy, not to take their side but I must interject on this, energy has been known to appear in a vacuum. While this doesn't say a lot, being as that maybe there was energy there just too small to detect, it does give scientists an edge on such things. Energy, also, seems to be created and destroyed in sub-atomic particles, so fast that the rules don't seem to apply to them.
     
  17. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    There is another point, which I just brought up without even knowing it at the time. How do scientists explain the way sub-atomic particles behave? It seems to be very difficult for them, without agreeing a creator is involved in the decisions made. They can only create and destroy energy if it is for a very small amount of time, so small that it seems like they are trying not to be seen doing such. It seems to me like something must be watching them to make them act that way.
     
  18. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Why? You pick up a rock, then drop it: 'Look at the rock. All it seems to do is fall. It seems to me like something must be watching them to make them act that way.'
     
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  19. Tawn

    Tawn Active Member

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  20. Passerbye

    Passerbye Member

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    The bible says on this, as well as a few others:
    Matthew 13:10-15
    Mark 4:9-12
    Many people understand this in different ways.
     
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