The EU is a bankers' dictatorship founded upon Seigniorage

[Estro Felino]

I haven't thought about it nor was I aware there was a movement to do so. It would end up with similar results as GB leaving the EU. It wouldn't be good for the EU but it would be devastating for Italy.

Back when there was the Lira...Bankitalia used to print money, money, money.
Which led to hyper-inflation of course.
But with that money, the Italians could buy a house...and now most Italians, own property. Unlike Germans.

Devastating for whom?
For the bankers who want to fagocitate anything?


Source
Immobilien: Hausbesitzer bleiben in Deutschland in der Minderheit

 

[Estro Felino]

@Heyo
Now that UK has left, Germany should be kinder to France and Italy.

 

[Kooky]

Remember...these 3 nations were the Holy Roman Empire...once.

I would bet that the people who actually care about that can be counted on two hands, and are all related to one another.

 

[Kooky]

And I am utterly against this goal.
The goal of the ECB should be to guarantee full employment. Even at cost of a slight inflation.

That has never been the goal of any central bank, Italian or otherwise.

 

[Estro Felino]

That has never been the goal of any central bank, Italian or otherwise.

I will just quote Nigel Farage.
The European Commission has bitten off more than they can chew...with us Italians.
We will not let anyone command us.

 

[Heyo]

I will just quote Nigel Farage.
The European Commission has bitten off more than they can chew...with us Italians.
We will not let anyone command us.

Why is that people can be mature in most cases but turn into spoiled kindergarteners the moment they represent a country?

 

[Estro Felino]

Why is that people can be mature in most cases but turn into spoiled kindergarteners the moment they represent a country?

I do believe that the EU was conceived as an union of equals.
I respect the fact that Germany has the biggest GDP in the Union. But this does not authorize her to rule over others.
With all due respect.

 

[Heyo]

I do believe that the EU was conceived as an union of equals.
I respect the fact that Germany has the biggest GDP in the Union. But this does not authorize her to rule over others.
With all due respect.

Yeah, and it doesn't help that France usually agrees. But that is due to a failure to communicate (which in turn is due to representatives of countries often behaving like spoiled brats).
Politicians within a country also have conflicting interests but they don't have the option of threatening to take their ball and go home, so they pull themselves together and resolve the conflict like adults (usually).
On the international stage the adults are rare. Rebellion against authorities is common and selfishness prevalent.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yeah, and it doesn't help that France usually agrees.

I don't understand.
Are you saying that you okay this situation (A germanocratic EU)?

 

[Heyo]

I don't understand.
Are you saying that you okay this situation (A germanocratic EU)?

It's more a Franco-German EU and whenever there is opposition to their ideas, the other countries can't agree in that opposition. So it usually gets done what France/Germany proposes. And that's not (only) because these two have the power to force their will, it is often because there is no concerted opposition. I.e. it gets done what the majority doesn't oppose.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's more a Franco-German EU and whenever there is opposition to their ideas, the other countries can't agree in that opposition. So it usually gets done what France/Germany proposes. And that's not (only) because these two have the power to force their will, it is often because there is no concerted opposition. I.e. it gets done what the majority doesn't oppose.

I appreciate your intellectual honesty...since you admit that. Thank you.
But a Franco-German EU is against the article 11 of our Constitution. Which states that no limitation of sovereignty can be allowed, unless on conditions of equality with other States.

This is leading to the incredible rise of the anti-EU populists. Giorgia Meloni is to become the new Prime Minister.
The populists will demand to rewrite the treaties...so I guess France and Germany shall start taking into account that Italy quits the EU.

Post scriptum. @Heyo ..it is a bit funny that Germany likes France more than us. We are the second industrial power in Europe, not France...who also imports more than it exports

 

[Heyo]

I appreciate your intellectual honesty...since you admit that. Thank you.

It is easy in this case since I never held an other position. And I'm not a nationalist. In fact I see myself more as a citizen of the EU than just a German. The sooner we get to a US of E, the better (provided the USE gets a democratic constitution).

But a Franco-German EU is against the article 11 of our Constitution. Which states that no limitation of sovereignty can be allowed, unless on conditions of equality with other States.

De jure there is no conflict with §11, even so there de facto is.

This is leading to the incredible rise of the anti-EU populists. Giorgia Meloni is to become the new Prime Minister.
The populists will demand to rewrite the treaties...so I guess France and Germany shall start taking into account that Italy quits the EU.

Post scriptum. @Heyo ..it is a bit funny that Germany likes France more than us. We are the second industrial power in Europe, not France...who also imports more than it exports

The EU was a Franco-German project from the get-go. We share a border. France has nuclear weapons and, even so they have a loud national minority, France is pretty much as EU centred as Germany.

 

[Estro Felino]

It is easy in this case since I never held an other position. And I'm not a nationalist. In fact I see myself more as a citizen of the EU than just a German. The sooner we get to a US of E, the better (provided the USE gets a democratic constitution).

De jure there is no conflict with §11, even so there de facto is.

The EU was a Franco-German project from the get-go. We share a border. France has nuclear weapons and, even so they have a loud national minority, France is pretty much as EU centred as Germany.

One question.
Do you believe that Italians are okay with being the vassals of a Franco-German superstate?
Or do you believe that a desire for Italexit is a legitimate desire?
Thank you in advance for answering.

 

[Heyo]

One question.
Do you believe that Italians are okay with being the vassals of a Franco-German superstate?
Or do you believe that a desire for Italexit is a legitimate desire?
Thank you in advance for answering.

I don't know. I've never been to Italy and the Italians I know might be biased as they widely benefit from the EU. From simply taking analogies, my guess is that the nationalists are loud but a minority. The benefits from staying are simply outweighing any nationalist pride. Ask the Brits how they are feeling now.
And being a vassal is simply a feeling. There is no hard rule that France and Germany are the leaders. Anyone putting in the work and the attitude can be among the rulers.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't know. I've never been to Italy and the Italians I know might be biased as they widely benefit from the EU. From simply taking analogies, my guess is that the nationalists are loud but a minority. The benefits from staying are simply outweighing any nationalist pride. Ask the Brits how they are feeling now.
And being a vassal is simply a feeling. There is no hard rule that France and Germany are the leaders. Anyone putting in the work and the attitude can be among the rulers.

They are not a minority.

 

[Kooky]

I will just quote Nigel Farage.
The European Commission has bitten off more than they can chew...with us Italians.
We will not let anyone command us.

Nigel Farage is Italian?

 

[Estro Felino]

Btw...Brussels Eurocracy has never studied history. 1789, for example.
Because if it had done that, it would understand what happens when the People gets tired.

Beware...

 

[Kooky]

Btw...Brussels Eurocracy has never studied history. 1789, for example.
Because if it had done that, it would understand what happens when the People gets tired.


Beware...

And here I thought you liked monarchies?

 

[Kooky]

They are not a minority.


View attachment 57661

So, the majority of Brits still think they benefitted from the EU.

 

[Estro Felino]

@mikkel_the_dane
Check this thread out