The Eternal Covenant of God: Does it exist within Hinduism and Buddhism?

[Dawnofhope]

Even then, if you're thinking the same as I am, it's a promise from Krishna, but there's no retribution if it's not followed.

"And whoever, at the time of death, quits his body, remembering Me alone, at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt." 8.5

"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend." 18.65

Whether Jesus or Krishna, it sounds like a state of utter devotion and dedication that few would truly attain. After all the mind is harder to control than the wind.(BG 6:34)

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yeah, pretty much. Karma. But Karma, as I rail and drone on about, because people use the word karma too fast and loose, is not "paybacks are a *****", or divine justice, retribution, crime and punishment, "let karma do its work on him/her". Those poachers in Africa, for example, being eaten by lions wasn't necessarily a karmic reaction for killing the lions. Funny, yes; karma, I don't think so. The gods certainly wouldn't do something so violent, no matter what the "crime".

I see people die and suffer from the result of their own actions. Cigarette smoking and alcohol consumption are obvious examples. I wouldn’t call it karma though, perhaps out of respect for the language and concepts of the Dharmic Faiths I don’t properly understand.

 

[Dawnofhope]

In my path there is a Covenant of God.
Surrender all your thoughts, words and deeds to me, and I will take care of you.
And a few others also

You sound the most Abrahamic of the Hindus who’ve posted so far.

 

[Dawnofhope]

If you take God out of the equation, the Kalama Sutta can somewhat parallel as a guide--reject teachings that preach greed, hatred and delusion as leading towards long-term harm, and accept teachings that lead to a lack of greed, hatred, or delusion as leading to long-term benefit.

The narrative of an anthropomorphic God is allegorical of course, not literal. So the rewards and punishments from our actions could be very much like karma and comprehending the Supreme Being (God) similar to the Eternal Dharma.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So all religions have somewhere at its core the recognition of the Absolute as Ultimate Goodness, or Perfection, and that to follow that as a pathway in life results in blessings and healthier and happier existence, free from suffering and illusions. That's the "covenant" right there. "Do this, receive the blessings. Don't do this, and reap the results of following the ways of the world." It's eternal, because this is the way of the Absolute. Everyone just uses different language to talk about it. The Hebrews chose "covenant". It made sense given their cultural backdrop. It was, and still is, a metaphor.

I think you’ve answered the OP question brilliantly.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It sounds similar to the God of Abraham who is an unknowable essence transcendent above all human virtue.

How so?

I’m not sure what you mean by that or if it’s even possible.

If you don’t know what I mean by that, there is no way of knowing if what I mean is possible or not.

Or did you mean that you don’t know if it’s possible to know what I mean?

 

[stvdv]

You sound the most Abrahamic of the Hindus who’ve posted so far.

The Guru concept in India is very much like a Covenant IMHO. All are "incarnations of the Divine". Mother is your first Guru, father the second. Then you can study with a so called Guru. You learn to see the Divine in your Guru, then in creation and in yourself.

A real and genuine Self Realized/Aware Guru has the ability to grant you a "spiritual experience or awakening". He will take you to the Goal. No promise you will be there just by Google-ing in 1 sec of course. Lot's of self effort is needed. Especially to let go the ego. Total Surrender is said, by some, to be the final step.

From Ramana Maharshi I read:
Master when I come here, I always get better (healthwise), but I see you getting sick. Ramana answers "Guru takes your karma, until you can take it yourself". This I have personally experienced a lot to be true.

Can it be any more of a Covenant with the Divine. In This context, Jesus is as the Guru. In Hinduism they are called Avatars, Guru, Saints, Sages, Enlightened Beings.

For me there is not so much difference between all the Religions (outside differs, not the essence IMO). Love is the core in all (that I have seen). Just some cultural fine tuning by the Divine. Principle is similar IMO, and I would be surprised if it were any different; they all call IT ... GOD, Allah etc.

 

[stvdv]

You sound the most Abrahamic of the Hindus who’ve posted so far.

I swing both ways
"Seeing" 1 "God" though

 

[crossfire]

The narrative of an anthropomorphic God is allegorical of course, not literal. So the rewards and punishments from our actions could be very much like karma and comprehending the Supreme Being (God) similar to the Eternal Dharma.

That's not what the Kalama Sutta is about.

 

[Jainarayan]

I see people die and suffer from the result of their own actions. Cigarette smoking and alcohol consumption are obvious examples.

Right, it's not necessarily karma. Not all actions generate other actions as a direct result.

I wouldn’t call it karma though, perhaps out of respect for the language and concepts of the Dharmic Faiths I don’t properly understand.

As much as it annoys me it's something I can't control and have to live with. People are adopting and co-opting all sorts of things from other languages and cultures and changing their meanings or use. I mean, today anyone who works in a coffee shop is a barrista. First, barrista is female, barristo is male. And then of course we have people who are learning to "open and balance their shockras" and "release their kundalini".

Is it good or bad? I really don't know.

 

[Jainarayan]

So none of the gods in Hinduism requires anything from humans? ...

No, not really. Remember, they own everything. We make offerings out of devotion, we think of them as honored guests at home and royalty in temple, their home, and as friends and parents. There is a prayer from the Mahabharata (Queen Gandhari to Krishna) that goes:

twameva mātā cha pitā twameva *
twameva bandhus cha sakhā twameva
twameva vidyā dravinam twameva
twameva sarvam mama deva deva

You are indeed mother and father to me, indeed you are.
You are indeed kindred and friend to me, indeed you are.
You are indeed knowledge and wealth [everything of value] to me, indeed you are.
You are indeed everything my God of Gods.

* Sanskrit doesn't use upper case, so neither do I. And it's completely free word order

Our personal pujas (worship), even a 5 minute one has elements of how you would welcome a guest.

So that's how we see them.

What god(s) are important to you if you don’t mind me asking?

At temple I go to all the shrines and give namaskar (respectful greeting). I'm primarily Vaishnava (devotee of Vishnu/Krishna) but I go to any deity's puja at temple. The deities I feel closest to and/or I ionclude in my shrine for one reason or another (usually because they reflect some aspect of my life) are

• Vishnu and his avatars (Krishna, Rama, Narasimha).
• Shiva.
• Devi (in her forms Lakshmi, Saraswati, Durga, Gayatri). I include Kali in my shrine because she's so awesome.
• Hanuman.
• Ayyappa and Kartikeya (aka Subramanya/Murugan), sons of Shiva, who are spiritual warriors and heroes.
• Ganesha of course. For all undertakings, trips, worship, projects etc he is worshiped/invoked first, to remove any obstacles.
• Kubera (Lord of Wealth and treasurer of the gods). My finances are somewhat in disrepair, so I'm trying to suck up to him.

 

[stvdv]

So none of the gods in Hinduism requires anything from humans? It sounds deist

No, not really. Remember, they own everything. We make offerings out of devotion, we think of them as honored guests at home and royalty in temple, their home, and as friends and parents

God gave us a pure heart at birth. Return with your heart purified is the best offer IMHO

Devotion is good for us. God does not need it IMHO. Like you said, all is His already. Kind of ignorant to offer to God what He granted you to start with. Devotion is a good way to become humble and do introspection.

There is a prayer from the Mahabharata (Queen Gandhari to Krishna) that goes:

twameva mātā cha pitā twameva *
twameva bandhus cha sakhā twameva
twameva vidyā dravinam twameva
twameva sarvam mama deva deva

You are indeed mother and father to me, indeed you are.
You are indeed kindred and friend to me, indeed you are.
You are indeed knowledge and wealth [everything of value] to me, indeed you are.
You are indeed everything my God of Gods.

* Sanskrit doesn't use upper case, so neither do I. And it's completely free word order

Thanks for sharing this. I love this one.
It's possible to have a "personal relationship"
(Christians sometimes claim wrongly that this is only possible with Jesus).

 

[sayak83]

The Eternal Covenant of God is an enormously important part of the Abrahamic Faiths whether it be Judaism, Christianity, Islam or the Baha’i Faith. At its heart is a binding agreement between God and man. God asks man to recognise His Great Spiritual Teachers and follow Their Teachings. In return God promises to protect and care for man and to bless Him. Various Covenants are recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures through Noah, Abraham, Moses and David. Similar narratives are at work through Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Bahá’u’lláh. Conceptually the Covenants are well established and progress through each Revelation.

However, Hinduism and Buddhism have developed parallel and usually seperate from their Abrahamic sister Faiths. Their narrative evolved over thousands of years is quite different. Yet Buddhism emerged from Hinduism as did Christianity from Judaism and the Baha’i Faith from Islam. Societal laws and those for spiritual development have successfully been put into practice and evolved over centuries or even Millenia. So in that sense there are clear parallels.

How about the Eternal Covenant of God that is so well established in the Abrahamic Faiths? Are there parallels in Buddhism and Hinduism? Perhaps the traditions based on the Dharmic Faiths have diverged so far from Abrahamic Faiths the concept of an Eternal Covenant is rendered meaningless. Is the Eternal Covenant of God uniquely Abrahamic or is it more Universal and applicable to both Hinduism and Buddhism?

Comments or questions as you will.

No such thing exists in Hinduism as far as I know.

 

[sayak83]

You sound the most Abrahamic of the Hindus who’ve posted so far.

Its an example of a personal covenant. That can exist.
For example I have one, but mine is not devotional in nature .

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So all religions have somewhere at its core the recognition of the Absolute as Ultimate Goodness, or Perfection, and that to follow that as a pathway in life results in blessings and healthier and happier existence, free from suffering and illusions. That's the "covenant" right there. "Do this, receive the blessings. Don't do this, and reap the results of following the ways of the world." It's eternal, because this is the way of the Absolute. Everyone just uses different language to talk about it. The Hebrews chose "covenant". It made sense given their cultural backdrop. It was, and still is, a metaphor.

I have also seen it explained like this;

"....The Great Being saith: The structure of world stability and order hath been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment…."

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

How so?



If you don’t know what I mean by that, there is no way of knowing if what I mean is possible or not.

Or did you mean that you don’t know if it’s possible to know what I mean?

Dharma has different meanings for each of us. You would need to explain what it means to you if I’m to properly understand it, and even then I may not.

Dharma for me might begin with the Words of Arjuna as he speaks to Lord Krishna while contemplating the moral dilemma of fighting against his relatives and the nature of his personal dharma as a warrior under such challenging circumstances:

On destruction of the family, the perennial family dharmas perish. When dharma perishes, adharma [the opposite of dharma] overwhelms the entire family. From the predominance of adharma, O Krishna, the family women are polluted. When the women are polluted, O Varshneya, a confusion of social orders arises. This confusion leads only to hell both for the destroyers of families and for the family. Certainly the forefathers fall [from heaven] since the ritual offerings of food and water are suspended. By these crimes of the family killers, who propagate a confusion of social classes, community dharmas and the everlasting family dharmas are devastated. We have always heard, O Janardana, that those men who devastate family dharmas have their residence fixed in hell.
BG:1.39-43

So we have a narrative in Hinduism that at least superficially resembles the Abrahamic narrative of reward and punishment based on consequences of actions.

 

[Windwalker]

I have also seen it explained like this;

"....The Great Being saith: The structure of world stability and order hath been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment…."

Regards Tony

I prefer to see it as consequence, cause and effect relationships, as opposed to punishment. Punishment is too externalized. God out there inflicting punishments upon people. That goes against the nature of the Divine as Ultimate Good. Our suffering comes as a result of not following good, and we are doing it to ourselves, like getting a massive hangover from drinking in excess. God didn't punish us by sending a hangover our way. It was a simple cause and effect relationship.

 

[Dawnofhope]

For me there is not so much difference between all the Religions (outside differs, not the essence IMO). Love is the core in all (that I have seen). Just some cultural fine tuning by the Divine. Principle is similar IMO, and I would be surprised if it were any different; they all call IT ... GOD, Allah etc.

Love is at the heart of any genuine faith. If there is no love, our words our empty and in vain no matter what faith we espouse.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's not what the Kalama Sutta is about.

Perhaps I’ve missed the point entirely. However Bhikkhu Bodhi opines the Kalama Sutta is neither an endorsement of radical skepticism, nor unreasonable personal truth:

On the basis of a single passage, quoted out of context, the Buddha has been made out to be a pragmatic empiricist who dismisses all doctrine and faith, and whose Dhamma is simply a freethinker's kit to truth which invites each one to accept and reject whatever he likes.

Kalama Sutta: The Buddha's Charter of Free Inquiry

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I prefer to see it as consequence, cause and effect relationships, as opposed to punishment. Punishment is too externalized. God out there inflicting punishments upon people. That goes against the nature of the Divine as Ultimate Good. Our suffering comes as a result of not following good, and we are doing it to ourselves, like getting a massive hangover from drinking in excess. God didn't punish us by sending a hangover our way. It was a simple cause and effect relationship.

I see that In the end, no matter what word is used, it is a cause and an effect.

Thus our choices are our reward or our punishment. Internal and external.

I see creation has been set up for us to find and live what is good over the choice of what is not good.

Those personal choices become the collective health of the world at whole.

I see that covernant in all Faiths. The question is will we all eventually see that it is the good that binds us and creates an ever advancing humanity?

Regards Tony