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The Earth - too many coincidences for life to have evolved

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by nnmartin, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. nnmartin

    nnmartin Well-Known Member

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    If we take the Earth as a complete living system then it seems unlikely all to have come about through evolution.

    Not only did we have random chemicals forming together to create DNA but we also had all the other parts of the equation just happening to be there at the right place and time.

    I am talking about water and all its myriad properties, the atmosphere, climate and soil for example all being perfect at the same time as life just spontaneously erupting.

    seems rather a bizarre coincidence doesn't it?

    More like a deliberate coming together of elements aided by mysterious powers.

    To think otherwise is surely the religion of denial.
     
  2. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Realitarian

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  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    Your probability calculations are irrefutable!
     
  4. cablescavenger

    cablescavenger Well-Known Member

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    1. A lot less bizarre than magic.
    2. So you want to explain something you do not understand with an ID argument by introducing mysterious powers, that compliment your beliefs.
    3. To think otherwise is surely the denial of religion?
     
  5. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Any discussion like this, where we try to figure out what happened based on probabilities, is useless without considering the relative probabilities of each possibility.

    It's also useless without a reasonable estimate of the probabilities involved, which I don't see here so far.
     
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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  7. Krok

    Krok Active Member

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    Not at all. All the evidence we have indicate that humans involved from other forms. All the evidence indicate that all current life evolved from unicellular organisms.
    All the empirical evidence indicate that there was no life on earth at first, then organic molecules then prokaryotes. Do you have any evidence that there was something else?
    Well, it seems like the organic molecules had around 12 billion years to be at the right place at the right time. They are even made in stars, you know?
    Life didn't erupt. It developed.
    Not as bizarre as a ghost poofing things into existence.
    Chemistry and physics are not mysterious powers anymore. We've learned a lot these past few hundred years.
    You've got a very strange definition of religion. Making your own definition up to build your straw-man?
     
  8. camanintx

    camanintx Well-Known Member

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    The odds of any single individual in this world winning the lottery on a specific date are also extremely unlikely, yet somehow someone always seems to win!
     
  9. tumbleweed41

    tumbleweed41 Resident Liberal Hippie

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    One can postulate the odds of an event occurring in the future, and as long as that event does not break the laws that govern the universe, it is possible for the event to occur. Even if the odds are seemingly impossibly stacked against it.
    Conversely, the odds of something occurring in the past that have actually occurred are 100 percent.

    In other words, If I calculate the odds of finding a pebble of a certain size, shape and color on a beach in Oregon on a certain date and time, the odds are infinitesimal.
    But if I have already found that pebble, the odds that what I have described have already occurred is 100 percent.
     
  10. Noaidi

    Noaidi slow walker

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    As Douglas Adams said: "Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, &#8216;This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn&#8217;t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, it must have been made to have me in it."
     
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  11. Tristesse

    Tristesse Well-Known Member

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    It's not a bizarre coincidence at all. It happened. What do you think the odds of you getting getting a royal flush on the first deal in poker are? Seems almost implausible right? Well, what if you got a two of clubs, four of diamands, jack of hearts, six of diamands and a queen of spades on the first deal in poker? Bassically a hand that doesn't really have a lot of meaning in the game. Well, the odds are the same as getting a royal flush. You're judging the outcome as a goal, which may not be the case. When you think of the laws of nature, it actually seems highly plausible that life would form on earth.

    What seems implausible to me are "mysterious powers" that no one can seem to have an understanding of.
     
  12. Caladan

    Caladan Agnostic Pantheist

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    Why would you consider it bizarre and not in line with geological, chemical, meteorological, or other natural processes?

    I think we do ourselves disservice when we attribute mysterious or magical qualities to natural processes. we better wise up to study what these processes are.

    I'm almost shocked you got this so reversed.

    also I have to ask if you understand what evolution deals with. evolution only rarely deals with the origin of life.
     
  13. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    Except that because the numbers are so large, it is almost inconceivable that it DIDN'T eventually occur, which it did, which is why we are here, which is why I can say this.

    Math is phun.
     
  14. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    "I don't understand it, therefore it must be magic!"
     
  15. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout Misanthropic Humanist

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    However, life did evolve, so such arguments are not only faulty, but vapid.
     
  16. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Microevolution is without a doubt occuring today. It's not something that is up for argument; you can see it occur in a lab.
     
  17. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    It was unlikly that the Mets would win the '69 World Series as well, yet....
     
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  18. Oneatatime

    Oneatatime Huh?

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    What do you mean by a complete living system? Conversely what qualifies as a incomplete living system? To my knowledge there is no standard against which to compare an ecosystem to determine whether it is to be considered complete or not. My experience from studying ecology is that ecosystems at any level are rather messy and dynamic things that simply are what they are at any given time.

    As for the old goldilocks argument I can cite a personal examples of seemingly rare coincidence when I ran into a friend I've not seen for several years in a place I would never normally visit due to a convergence of largely random factors. I don't believe that a mysterious power was involved in running into a friend any more than I believe that it's necessary to invoke a mysterious power to account for the existence of conditions suitable for the emergence of life in a rather large universe.
     
  19. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    Attempting to split evolution into two different kinds isn't possible. You cannot have "micro" without "macro."
     
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  20. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    My goodness......you made some leaps and bounds there.
     
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