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Featured The Divinity of Christ

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by adrian009, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    True! We just don't have any record of that. But, if I go by scripture, I think I could logically conclude IMHO.

    I hope you are pleasantly surprised.

    Consider yourself reminded. :)
     
  2. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Metis
    Hope you have a safe weekend, thanks for the reply
    take care
    (quote)
     
  3. garden47

    garden47 Member

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    The Divinity of Christ

    The divinity of Jesus Christ and His role within the Trinity cannot be fully understood without understanding the Arian Controversy and the Council of Nicaea (AD 325).

    During the late 2ndC AD, Arius of Alexandria, Egypt, was the first to argue that the Son of God was not eternal, but "begotten" from God the Father.

    The Arian Controversy precipitated the First Council of Nicaea, which reaffirmed that the Son of God was eternal - not "begotten" from God the Father.

    The theological relationship between God the Father and God the Son, the first two pillars of the Trinity can be a difficult one to understand, but the First Council of Nicaea established that both are eternal.
     
  4. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Here's a page with a recipe, although I don't use carrots, plus I make mine in pie form using store-bought (frozen) crust (use "deep-ish crust): Pasties II Recipe If you can't find rutabagas in your area, you can use turnips.
     
  5. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Thanks, and the same to you.

    In regards to what you requested with that which has had a profound influence on my over the last two years, I wrote it out several months ago upon request but I can't find it. It's a long story, so I'm going to give you a very short version of it.

    Back in 1964-5, I fell in love with an Italian Catholic women named "Cindy", who was the most compassionate and understanding person I had ever met, and she changed my life, giving me a sense of direction that I needed. However, because I treated her too much like a saint and not enough as a woman, she dropped me. But at least now I knew what I was looking for and also wanted to be more like myself.

    Two years later, fate brought us back together, but this time it was I who had to bow out of our relationship because I had fallen on love with another very devout Catholic woman named "Josie", and we've been married for over 50 years, and she's been an utterly fantastic wife.

    At a Palm Sunday service at my wife's church in March of last year, about 10 minutes into the service, a flash went into my mind that said "Cindy's praying". Well, weird thoughts are not that usual with me (just ask @KenS about that :D) so I didn't think much of it. But about 20 minutes after that it hit like gangbusters, feeling that "Cindy's praying at a 11:00 mass at a Catholic church near her home" (I know where she lives but certainly have not made any attempt to visit her). It was so powerful that it brought tears to my eyes. I went home, googled the Catholic church near her, went through the website for it, and found that her husband was a eucharistic minister at that mass.

    This happened again a couple more times, and then we came up to our place in the U.P., and it stopped. May, June, July, and part of August-- nothing.

    And then my wife wanted to go to a different Catholic church in another town near us because she heard that the choir was great, and about halfway through the 10:30 service it hit again. I looked down at my watch, and it was 2 minutes to 11:00, which would be the time one would by praying on their own just before the mass started. Then it clicked as the service I had been attending from May to early August was at 9:30, and Cindy's church has no mass at that time.

    So, first of all I could not write this off as coincidence as that literally would make no sense in the context of what had happened. Even though I had never believed in this before, I felt there must be some sort of "spiritual connection" with her, and I have had many such things happen along the same line with my wife as well that simply cannot be written off as coincidence. So, what does this all mean? IOW, what's the "message" that maybe I'm getting from "the Boss"?

    I've long considered Gandhi as being my mentor, and one of his teachings is that if you have strong and recurrent feelings to do something, first judge to make certain it's moral, and if one decides that it is, go for it! In this case I had strong feelings to revisit the Catholic church that I first went with Cindy to and enjoyed so much (I was brought up in a fundamentalist Protestant church and actually had thoughts about going into the ministry). So, with my wife's blessing, I drove the 3 hours to that church not knowing what to expect.

    The church had changed a lot, both physically and how the atmosphere was and how the mass was conducted. It had gone from the very solemn type of mass that was conducted in Latin to a very uplifting active mass, plus the sanctuary was in the round and brightly lit. And then it hit me:

    Cindy was the "old church", which I loved at that time, enough to take classes in Catholic theology. And Josie is the "new church", which I love because it is so much more open with strong emphasis on compassion and justice. IOW, both have reflected what I needed in my life at each different times.

    So, even though I'm not Catholic, I decided to get involved in my wife's church with the blessing of the priest, and I feel that "the Boss" was basically guiding me there.

    Strange, I know; but I have no doubt at this time that it's real.
     
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  6. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    WOOHOO!! It is now on my to do list. I haven't seen rutabagas in decades but we do have turnips.
     
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  7. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Sounds real to me!!!
     
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  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Let me know what you think after trying it.

    BTW, to make egg pasties in pie form, leave out the beef and carefully break 3-4 eggs on the rest of the mixture that you already put in the bottom crust, but do not mix. Then gently put on the top crust and bake at 350 for about 45 minutes to an hour. The egg whites melt down, leaving the yokes on top, and I really like this even more than with the beef. I got this egg recipe from a friend's mother as they're Catholic and would make these pasties on Friday.
     
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  9. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Garden,
    Perhaps further information may help decipher the true facts of the matter.

    At Pentecost 33 C.E., thousands of Jews and proselytes were anointed with holy spirit. These new Christians became “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession.” (Read1 Peter 2:9, 10.) The apostles kept careful watch over the congregations of God’s people as long as they lived. However, especially after the death of the apostles, men arose who spoke “twisted things” in order to “draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:30; 2 Thess. 2:6-8)
    Many of these men had responsible positions in the congregations, serving as overseers and later as “bishops.”
    A clergy class was taking shape, although Jesus had said to his followers: “All of you are brothers.” (Matt. 23:8)

    Prominent men who were enamored of the philosophies of Aristotle and Plato introduced false religious ideas, gradually replacing the pure teachings of God’s Word.

    In 313 C.E., this apostate form of Christianity was granted legal recognition by the pagan Roman Emperor Constantine. From that time on, Church and State began working hand in hand. For example, after the Council of Nicaea, Constantine, who was present at the council, ordered Arius, a dissenting priest, into exile because Arius refused to acknowledge Jesus as God.
    First century followers of Jesus, or 'Christians', as it were, did NOT believe in a Trinity, but were monotheistic, and knew that Jesus was God's Son, the Promised Messiah sent forth BY GOD.

    Later, under Emperor Theodosius I (379-395 C.E.), the Catholic Church, as the contaminated form of Christianity came to be known, became the official religion of the Roman Empire.
    Historians refer to pagan Rome as having been “Christianized” in the fourth century. The truth is that by that time an apostate form of Christianity had joined the pagan religious organizations of the Roman Empire as members of Babylon the Great.
    Even so, a small number of anointed wheatlike Christians were doing their best to worship God, but their voices were being drowned out. (Read Matthew 13:24, 25, 37-39.) The Apostate Church and pagan doctrines such as the trinity were forced upon the people by the Roman rule/church. Not a Bible teaching.


    (quote)
     
    #429 Daisies4me, Aug 20, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  10. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Metis
    Thank you so much for taking the time to explain your experiences with me. I am glad that you have settled the matter that was puzzling you in a manner that has given you peace.
    Sounds like you have a wonderful wife, and a happy life. Very fortunate.
    Thanks again,
    take good care

    (quote)
     
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  11. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    All of this is very true.

    This, however, is purely opinion as the Godhead of Father, The Word and Holy Spirit is quite Biblical and not forced on people.

    The fact that people were anointed by the Holy Spirit (the third part of the one God) shows the reality that at the very least there is two parts and at the very most shows that your interpretation is being forced on people. (if you want to use the word forced).

    After all, we also are one person with three parts (spirit, soul and body) and we are made in His image and in His likeness.

    Shalom
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    And there is no doubt that this was the view that was overwhelmingly dominant in the very early church (1st & 2nd century) as it was really only the details of this relationship that were sometimes hotly debated. IOW, the belief was that there's a direct link with Jesus, God, and the HS, and it's only what exactly that link consists of that wasn't often agreed upon, thus "the mystery of the trinity".
     
  13. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    YES!!

    My personal viewpoint:

    1. Adam and Eve were intimately connected to God (using the word communion).
    2. Sin (as with a marriage) ruined the relationship and the understanding of who God, His mysteries, His purposes was slowly lost (or quickly for that matter).
    3. Through Abraham, God began to reveal Himself again.
      1. Ex. Jah Jireh - provision
    4. To Moses - Rapha
    5. To David - Ru'ah etc
    6. From that point on, God continues to reveal His mysteries and His purpose.
    7. So when Jesus sacrificed for humanity, again and again things were revealed through the Jewish scriptures
      1. That God was the God of all humanity and it included Gentiles
      2. That God had prepared temples, not made with human hands, but by His Holy Spirit
      3. His very makeup which included the Holy Spirit and The Word manifest
      4. etc.

    I don't think revelations stop because, how can a finite mind fully comprehend and know the Eternal, the Ancient of days?
     
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  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Darn! Now I have to reconsider. :(
     
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  15. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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  16. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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  17. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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    (quote)
    Hi Metis
    I understand this to be a teaching that many accept. For my own searches in the quest for accurate understanding of what the Bible is actually stating, I have found that there is no 'trinity' mentioned or taught in in the Holy Writings. Triune gods were taught in the Babylonish religions long before Jesus came to earth. The God of the Bible warned His Name peoples about the taint of the pagan nations that surrounded them, and to be on guard against their false doctrines, correct? The descendants of Jacob (Israel) were monotheistic. Adhering to the Law of Moses, they obeyed the first commandment given by God, do you perhaps recall what that was?
    “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”—DEUT. 6:4.
    Faithful Israelites knew and worshipped only one God—as Jesus said to the woman at the well. "we worship what we know', at John 4:22, while the Samaritans worshiped a 'mystery', or as Jesus said to her, "what they do not know". Jesus included himself in the 'we' , as he also worships Jehovah, His God...as he said at John 20:17.
    The word “one” in Hebrew and many other languages can mean much more than a simple number.
    It can imply being unique, the one and only. As Psalm 83:18, the God of Jesus is 'The ONLY true God'. ONLY meaning just ONE, correct?

    Jehovah is the Maker of heaven and earth, the Sovereign of the universe. There is no real or true God but him; no other god is like him. (2 Sam.7:22)
    As I have come to believe from my studies in the Scriptures. The many churches that I attended in my early life taught otherwise. My oldest daughter was baptised in St. Bernadette Catholic Church, in fact. But personal study has led me to see that the church doctrines are not in harmony with the Bible on many thing. Even Jesus calls Jehovah 'the only True God' in prayer to Him, at John 17:3.
    may you have peace.
    (quote)
     
  18. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Thank you... likewise.

    The parameters, of course, is found in 2 Cor 4:4 (those that believe not) - and an additional qualifier is that there are those who hear and believe.

    This is where your opinion is now inserted because:
    1. The scriptures you referenced doesn't mention that
    2. In Revelation, it is obvious they are still in the spirit realm Rev 6:9-10
    As referenced in above scripture, the soul does not die for, as Jesus said, " ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

    Of course, I will take what Jesus says over any opinions that is offered.

    Since the rest of your post is contrary to what Jesus said and basically is about the same issue, I have opted not comment on it.
     
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  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It's an interpretation, so it's not mentioned by name, but it was by far the most prevailing view that was believed in the very early church.

    It was the Ebionites, a separate group from the apostolic church, that believed that Jesus was not divine, and they only recognized only one gospel as being valid, plus they roundly denounced Paul as being a heretic. By the mid-2nd century they were pretty much out as they didn't attract enough followers to keep going. See: Ebionites - Wikipedia

    Now, to be clear, I'm only covering the history on this as I really only deal with Jesus myself as being a man, so I really have no irons in this fire anyway.
     
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  20. Daisies4me

    Daisies4me Active Member

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