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The Devil

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Green Gaia, Oct 12, 2004.

?
  1. Is real and can possess people.

    9 vote(s)
    22.5%
  2. Is real and can directly influence human action, but can't possess people.

    2 vote(s)
    5.0%
  3. Is just a metaphor for the evil humans are capable of.

    14 vote(s)
    35.0%
  4. Is a dangerous idea that leads us to demonize other people.

    7 vote(s)
    17.5%
  5. Other, please explain.

    8 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. croak

    croak Trickster

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    Well, the Qur'an says it very differently. It says Shaitan was arrogant. So, you mean to say Allah is lying?!

    Also, I've heard the Sufis spin and dance around, thinking they will be closer to Allah. However, I read somewhere dancing is prohibited in Islam. If it isn't, still, how can dancing bring you closer to Him?
     
  2. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    The satan was an angel whose job is to test man, not in an attempt to destroy man but to help refine him. He tempts and tests us so that we may try to be better than we are.
     
  3. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Sufis go into an estactic trance that is considered to be with God.

    Bob
     
  4. croak

    croak Trickster

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    Well, I'm a Sunni, and we believe in the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammed's (saas) sayings (ahadith). Nowhere does it talk about what's practised in Sufiism, so I disagree with it.
     
  5. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    The trance light state of exstacy that they enter, they believe, will bring them closer to G-d. It's done in the circular motion to imitate the moth circling the flame, a metaphor for the Sufis attempt to become closer to G-d, close enough that they are engulfed by the flame (G-d) itself.
    It's really kinda groovy!
     
  6. croak

    croak Trickster

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    It's really kinda stupid! :p

    That's my opinion. :)
     
  7. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    No more stupid than any other religious practice steeped in tradition...
    ...praying three times a day while wearing black boxes and leather straps tied to your head and arm
    ...or believing that bread and wine become flesh and blood
    ...or praying 7 times a day facing a big rock

    But that as well is just my personal opinion :D ;)
     
  8. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    Um... no. I would never say that God is lying. I find it much more likely that we humans misunderstand things. Or make the mistake of taking our finite understanding of things to be the truth.

    I understand and respect that for you the Qur'an is the inerrant word of God. But it is not for me. I'm just stating my perspective, which you are free to think is misguided. But I hope that you won't think that I'm saying that God is lying every time I say something that contradicts the Qur'an.

    For example, most Christians believe that Jesus is God, which directly contradicts the Qur'an. I hope that you don't think that they're all saying that God is lying when they state their beliefs.


    I'm no expert on Sufism but I believe that the whirling dancing brings people to an altered state that they feel puts them in touch with God.
     
  9. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    Well that explains Rumi's poem:
    The only way to measure a lover is by the grandeur of the beloved.
    Judge a moth by the beauty of its candle.

    Thanks for the cool info! But I have a question about your earlier post on Satan / Shaitan / the Adversary: what do you mean by "the satan WAS an angel"? What is he now?
     
  10. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    He was an angel but was given the position (like a job) of The satan. When G-d takes away The satan i'm not entirely certain what will happen whether he'll simply be gone or be placed as an angel again.
    (i think that's what it says anyways i could be wrong)
     
  11. croak

    croak Trickster

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    It's 5. :p Also, you want to know why? Let's see:

    5 times a day, over a million Muslims pray to the exact same point. Isn't it quite amazing? They aren't praying all over the place. They're praying to one area. They don't worship it, they worship Allah, however, they do it together. Understand my opinion? ;)

    I like opinions. :D
     
  12. croak

    croak Trickster

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    The other two are Judaism and Christianity, right?

    I think I'd like to change my vote because it says somewhere that Shaitan will say that he didn't force us to do anything. That doesn't mean he can't, though. I'm confused. Oh, who cares, for anyone who reads this, -1 from the first answer and +1 to the last.
     
  13. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Is that on Grennwich Mean Time? or perhaps the local time zone where prayer is conducted 5 times a day?

    Bob
     
  14. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    oops my B your right it's 5 (need an embarassed smilie):bonk:
    I know they are not praying to the rock...but they do face in the direction of Mecca where the rock resides.
    I've seen the temple in Mecca it is a pretty amazing site
    But then so is the Western Wall

    Yep!
     
  15. Doodlebug02

    Doodlebug02 Active Member

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    I voted Other because I honestly don't know. I don't even know if I believe in the devil. If anything, I think he's probably just a metaphor for the evil that humans are capable of.
     
  16. SoulTYPE

    SoulTYPE Well-Known Member

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    Scuse me for a sec: OT-wow, this was one of the very very first threads I posted in. The memories *wipes away tear..but I have come a long way since then..

    Anyways..this argument could go on forever, but it will not change our or another's beliefs in Satan's existance. It is good to share opinions, but no Bible Quotes, no Deut32s, not really anything will change whether I believe in Satan:)
     
  17. Bastet

    Bastet Vile Stove-Toucher

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    I don't believe Satan or The Devil, or whatever you what to call it, exists. It's a metaphor.

    We have the tv on out in the dining room at work, and when I get to work in the wee hours of the morning, almost every station has televangelists on. One lady (I don't know her name, or the name of the show), spends more time talking about the Devil, than she does about God. Every single bad thing that anyone ever does, from running a red light, to molesting their child, she blames on the Devil. It reminds me of a bib I had as a baby that had "The Devil Made Me Do It" printed on it...sounds like a total cop-out to me. People should be taking responsibility for their actions, not blaming it on some mythical baddie. God and Satan are not puppet masters, pulling everyone's strings this way and that. :sarcastic
     
  18. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Christian Taoist

    His hompage sucks and he could use a better publicist. Why?
     
  19. Bastet

    Bastet Vile Stove-Toucher

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    I think you might be right there... http://www.thedevil.com/
     
  20. Bastet

    Bastet Vile Stove-Toucher

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    Or how about this one? http://www.thedevil.net/ ...click on the banner and see where it takes you...I knew it all along... ;)
     
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