The Destruction of America

[Trailblazer]

This is in a debate section so all can discuss, it is not a debate I am after, but solutions offered to race disunity.

In 1912 in America a talk was given by Abdul'baha, the New York Times reported that the mission stated in the talk was “to do away with prejudices…, prejudice of nationality, of race, of religion.” The article also quotes the talk directly: “The time has come for humanity to hoist the standard of the oneness of the human world, so that dogmatic formulas and superstitions may end.”

Not long after to an overflowing crowd in Rankin Chapel at Howard University, the first predominantly black audience ‘Abdu’l-Bahá would address in America, the Reverend Wilbur Patterson Thirkield, Howard’s eighth President, introduced ‘Abdu'l-Bahá. In that talk He offered;

“Animals, despite the fact that they lack reason and understanding, do not make colors the cause of conflict. Why should man, who has reason, create conflict? This is wholly unworthy of him.”

Many talks were given on Race Unity and removal of predudices in America that year and reported in the news across the country, but the topic of this thread comes from this quote, from one of those talks;

“Until these prejudices are entirely removed from the people of the world,” he wrote, “the realm of humanity will not find rest. Nay, rather, discord and bloodshed will be increased day by day, and the foundation of the prosperity of the world of man will be destroyed.” “Now is the time for the Americans to take up this matter and unite both the white and colored races. Otherwise, hasten ye towards destruction! Hasten ye toward devastation!” “Indeed, there is a greater danger than only the shedding of blood. It is the destruction of America.”

So that is the topic, I personally see the destruction of America is Anarchy, where it's unity in its diversity is destroyed by godless actions, which to me, the solutions were given in another talk offered in the same year.

“But there is a need for a superior power to overcome human prejudices, a power which nothing in the world of mankind can withstand and which will overshadow the effect of all other forces at work in human conditions. That irresistable power is the love of God. It is my hope and prayer that it may destroy the prejudice of this one point of distinction between you and unite you all permanently under its hallowed protection.” Talk at Hull House, Chicago

Please discuss.

If you wish to read the article these quotes come from about race unity, which has been an active movement in America since 1912, here is a link.

Race Unity in America : An Active Movement Since 1912 – Ohio Baha'i

View attachment 40453

Regards Tony

I live in the U.S. and I am happy to see it all falling apart. I have waited almost 50 years to see this. This had to happen eventually because only by destruction can there be reconstruction. Of course, unlike some people who might be worried, I know what the ultimate outcome so I am not worried. The old world order has to come down before the new world order can rise in its stead.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sometimes I feel we still have a long way to go, before the unity is established.
It might be after the next Manifestation of God.

I see the Most Great Peace may not be this dispensation, by who knows what is just around the corner?

We can only aim for it!

Regards Tony

 

[Twilight Hue]

I live in the U.S. and I am happy to see it all falling apart. I have waited almost 50 years to see this. This had to happen eventually because only by destruction can there be reconstruction. Of course, unlike some people who might be worried, I know what the ultimate outcome so I am not worried. The old world order has to come down before the new world order can rise in its stead.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7

I'd much rather see the USA continue down the road of prosperity with its tenants of freedom attracting people from all walks of life and ethnicity.

Unfortunately it's really just a nice utopian view and not very realistic because when it comes down to the end of the day like it or not, we will always and always will be a tribal species.

Whether it's fighting against racist or being racist, political or whatever, if you notice, we always and inevitably flock into tribal groups.

That's life on the planet of the apes.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'd say we have to deal with:

- racism
- misogyny
- wealth and income inequality
- massive government corruption
- the environment
- other investments for us and future generations

Not necessarily in that order.

Add social mobility to the list. I think it's key.

 

[halbhh]

Sometimes I feel we still have a long way to go, before the unity is established.
It might be after the next Manifestation of God.

Well, you can't go wrong with that. That's what Christ said would happen.

 

[Deeje]

Sometimes I feel we still have a long way to go, before the unity is established.

Is that because you think it has to come through the efforts of man? The Bible says it will come through Christ establishing his Kingdom rulership on earth. Its a direct intervention because unless God steps in as he says he will, sending Jesus as judge and ordering a cleansing of this earth of every vestige of failed human rulership, nothing will change....it hasn't for thousands of years.....humans are still hating and killing each other. All that changes is the characters and scenes where these actors play their part.

Jesus taught us to pray for God's kingdom to "come" and for his will to "be done on earth as it is in heaven". This will be God's doing, not man's. (Daniel 2:44) The Kingdom is not a product of anything pertaining to this world. (John 18:36) Its not about just the self-destruction of America....its so much bigger and more encompassing than that.

It might be after the next Manifestation of God.

Where will I find another manifestation of God mentioned in scripture?
Jesus said he was going to return and rectify all that is wrong with life on this planet.
Don't Baha'i's believe that this has already taken place?
How is he to come again? Why will he need to?

 

[Trailblazer]

Unfortunately it's really just a nice utopian view and not very realistic because when it comes down to the end of the day like it or not, we will always and always will be a tribal species.

Whether it's fighting against racist or being racist, political or whatever, if you notice, we always and inevitably flock into tribal groups.

That is okay if we flock into tribal groups that are different because we can still have unity in our diversity.

BEAUTY AND HARMONY IN DIVERSITY

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'd much rather see the USA continue down the road of prosperity with its tenants of freedom attracting people from all walks of life and ethnicity.

Unfortunately it's really just a nice utopian view and not very realistic because when it comes down to the end of the day like it or not, we will always and always will be a tribal species.

Whether it's fighting against racist or being racist, political or whatever, if you notice, we always and inevitably flock into tribal groups.

That's life on the planet of the apes.

I am optimistic

I see elimination of predudices and the acceptance we are one human race as unfolding here and now. I see these events are cementing our desire to change for the better.

Regards Tony

 

[Samael_Khan]

I live in the U.S. and I am happy to see it all falling apart. I have waited almost 50 years to see this. This had to happen eventually because only by destruction can there be reconstruction. Of course, unlike some people who might be worried, I know what the ultimate outcome so I am not worried. The old world order has to come down before the new world order can rise in its stead.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7

Have you ever tried using the fynbos analogy? Fire keeps it alive so regular fire is needed for its survival.

Fynbos and fire | Fynbos Hub.

I sometimes think that the easy route is to destroy everything and reconstruct everything anew. But I think that would just be history repeating itself in a new setting. It happened with the fall of Rome and then the Western world struggled for centuries. To reconstruct anew would mean more suffering. And it might even lead to world dystopia and dominance by a worse power.


p.s. that new world order comment always reminds me of the illuminati

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am optimistic

I see elimination of predudices and the acceptance we are one human race as unfolding here and now. I see these events are cementing our desire to change for the better.

Regards Tony

Well we can certainly hit for a period of stability that might last for several decades. Maybe even a few more until it starts all over again.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This is in a debate section so all can discuss, it is not a debate I am after, but solutions offered to race disunity.

In 1912 in America a talk was given by Abdul'baha, the New York Times reported that the mission stated in the talk was “to do away with prejudices…, prejudice of nationality, of race, of religion.” The article also quotes the talk directly: “The time has come for humanity to hoist the standard of the oneness of the human world, so that dogmatic formulas and superstitions may end.”

Not long after to an overflowing crowd in Rankin Chapel at Howard University, the first predominantly black audience ‘Abdu’l-Bahá would address in America, the Reverend Wilbur Patterson Thirkield, Howard’s eighth President, introduced ‘Abdu'l-Bahá. In that talk He offered;

“Animals, despite the fact that they lack reason and understanding, do not make colors the cause of conflict. Why should man, who has reason, create conflict? This is wholly unworthy of him.”

Many talks were given on Race Unity and removal of predudices in America that year and reported in the news across the country, but the topic of this thread comes from this quote, from one of those talks;

“Until these prejudices are entirely removed from the people of the world,” he wrote, “the realm of humanity will not find rest. Nay, rather, discord and bloodshed will be increased day by day, and the foundation of the prosperity of the world of man will be destroyed.” “Now is the time for the Americans to take up this matter and unite both the white and colored races. Otherwise, hasten ye towards destruction! Hasten ye toward devastation!” “Indeed, there is a greater danger than only the shedding of blood. It is the destruction of America.”

So that is the topic, I personally see the destruction of America is Anarchy, where it's unity in its diversity is destroyed by godless actions, which to me, the solutions were given in another talk offered in the same year.

“But there is a need for a superior power to overcome human prejudices, a power which nothing in the world of mankind can withstand and which will overshadow the effect of all other forces at work in human conditions. That irresistable power is the love of God. It is my hope and prayer that it may destroy the prejudice of this one point of distinction between you and unite you all permanently under its hallowed protection.” Talk at Hull House, Chicago

Please discuss.

If you wish to read the article these quotes come from about race unity, which has been an active movement in America since 1912, here is a link.

Race Unity in America : An Active Movement Since 1912 – Ohio Baha'i

View attachment 40453

Regards Tony

As a European watching the news and following everything that happened since Trump took office (what with his retreat from several areas on the world stage and his pissing contest with china), with the current "double climax crisis" of the protests and corona..... It looks as if I am watching the US collapse in on itself, as a world leader and superpower, as well as as a country in itself.

True leaders stand up in the face of crisis. Trump clearly isn't fit. But on the world stage, the US itself also isn't fit anymore. China is taking over and it is 110% the US' own fault.

As an outsider, I see the US breaking down its own house.
The rest of the world looks less and less to the US for leadership and guidance.

People don't trust the country anymore, which in very large part is due to the baffoon that is currently leading it. Trump is like a toddler with too much money who's used to getting his way being surrounded by a bunch of knodding people. And when he doesn't get his way, he reacts like a spoiled child who's parents refuse to give him candy.

It's a really really bad joke.

You (americans) only have yourself to thank for it - you elected the spoiled brat into office.

Not that everything is 100% Trump's fault off course, but it certainly doesn't help to have such an unfit, unqualified baffoon in office during such crisis times.

We'll see if the next president will be able to turn this around again. But I fear for the US that Trump's damage is going to have lasting effect for quite some time. And while the US is going to be busy to get its act together again... China and other countries are going to keep moving forward, leaving the US to play a game of catch-up.

At this point, I have no idea what the future holds for the US. But it seems to me that it is on very thin ice at the moment. The situation is remarkably bad. The combination of Trump, corona and social unrest is a deadly cocktail.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

At this point, I have no idea what the future holds for the US. But it seems to me that it is on very thin ice at the moment. The situation is remarkably bad. The combination of Trump, corona and social unrest is a deadly cocktail.

I see America has a great future, but I see that it will be born out of much suffering, which may still yet unfold!

I would hope change can happen without great suffering, but it appears change does not come that easily.

Regards Tony

 

[Secret Chief]

An observation: The black police and military police officers involved must surely be feeling totally conflicted, or not? Orders are orders but... ?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

People just have to stop using race as a tool of leverage and a means to an end, and to stop reminding people of one's skin color which reinforces even more, ones differences. Especially with media.

Equanimity doesn't do much good if you keep reminding and pointing out the differences so it's not a real big surprise to come across prejudice and bigotry.

Like I said many times nobody listens to God, aka Morgan Freeman who says if you want to end racism, stop talking about it.

Ignoring a problem or pretending it does not exist, does not make it go away.

If you want to end racism you need to promote the benefits to everyone of all skin colours, and show the strengths that each bring to the party.
Skin colour and features are superficial. and like many animals, including dogs and cats. the various breeds are not separate species... they can all interbreed freely. Breed conformity is only as fixed as the next mating.
This is equally true with humans. We are all one species.

There are no pure bloods in the world anyway, we all still contain traces of Cro magnon and Neanderthals.
Europeans were originally dark skinned with blue eyes. The churn of colours and features is always changing and always mixing. the Individual race characteristics are only maintained though geographical stagnation and lack of normal interbreeding.
We never seem to achieve the ideal coffee colour. though the modern free flow of peoples between countries is blurring the distinctions at an increasing rate.

However there are advantages and disadvantages to having particular skin colours at different latitudes.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

However there are advantages and disadvantages to having particular skin colours at different latitudes.

I can tell you white skin sucks where I live, sun cancer magnet.

The local aboriginal, no problems at all.



I should live in Tasmania not Far North West Qld.

Regards Tony

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

As to the destruction of America....
That is pretty much inevitable in its present form.
I would put that firmly in the court of the constitution.
As they say Change is inevitable.
However the Constitution is unchanging and acts as a blocked safety valve.
And like all blocked safety valves will inevitably lead to an explosion.

The pressure of change in the United states has nowhere to go.
The political system is reactionary and increasingly tribal.
Internationally the USA is domineering and out of touch with the reality that the world is now a far smaller place,
and totally interdependent one country with another.
There is no place for isolation and trade wars.
America is out of touch with with the true situation.
And has a leader who is out of touch with reality itself.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I can tell you white skin sucks where I live, sun cancer magnet.

The local aboriginal, no problems at all.



I should live in Tasmania not Far North West Qld.

Regards Tony

Not much of a joke For white people living there, and the self induced Hole in the Ozone layer does not help.
I am sure that even Tasmania is not as healthy as it used to be.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not much of a joke For white people living there, and the self induced Hole in the Ozone layer does not help.
I am sure that even Tasmania is not as healthy as it used to be.

In the end, We choose to live here, so such is life, time to get a few more of those Basal Cells and Squamous Cells excavated from the old frame.

Regards Tony

 

[PruePhillip]

This is in a debate section so all can discuss, it is not a debate I am after, but solutions offered to race disunity.

You don't stop prejudice. It's inbuilt into us.
America is a beacon for people all over the world.
You can say it's becoming the world's first true multi-racial nation.
To focus upon race riots doesn't do America service - in China you
would be killed of put into a concentration camp for doing what happens
in America.
And there's a new prejudice in America - white hate.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ignoring a problem or pretending it does not exist, does not make it go away.

If you want to end racism you need to promote the benefits to everyone of all skin colours, and show the strengths that each bring to the party.
Skin colour and features are superficial. and like many animals, including dogs and cats. the various breeds are not separate species... they can all interbreed freely. Breed conformity is only as fixed as the next mating.
This is equally true with humans. We are all one species.

There are no pure bloods in the world anyway, we all still contain traces of Cro magnon and Neanderthals.
Europeans were originally dark skinned with blue eyes. The churn of colours and features is always changing and always mixing. the Individual race characteristics are only maintained though geographical stagnation and lack of normal interbreeding.
We never seem to achieve the ideal coffee colour. though the modern free flow of peoples between countries is blurring the distinctions at an increasing rate.

However there are advantages and disadvantages to having particular skin colours at different latitudes.

Oh it's not that we don't know there are differences, it's obvious that there are.

By ignoring it, the implication is that you should stop using terms like 'a black man or a white man' and just start using proper names without giving inference to what race that person is. That's the point I'm trying to drive home and I'm assuming God (Morgan Freeman) as well when he says that.