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The death penalty. Are you against it or for it?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by We Never Know, May 3, 2021.

?
  1. For it

    11 vote(s)
    32.4%
  2. Against it

    23 vote(s)
    67.6%
  1. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Against it.
    Two American students in Rome stabbed an Italian policeman.
    It is the evidence that drugs destroys people's soul.
    But nobody deserves to die. As Beccaria said, the state cannot commit the same crime as the perpetrator. Because we won't turn the perpetrators into a victim.
    They were sentenced to a life sentence.
    So they can meditate. So they can be helped.

    Mario Cerciello Rega: US students found guilty of killing Italian policeman
     
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  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    That's not correct.
     
  3. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    It's call manslaughter when it's out of emotion and without intend to kill.
    But yes, more killings are manslaughter than there are murders.
     
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  4. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Too bad more don't see it like that.
     
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  5. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    No, not "we". "We" do not collectively judge people, and "we" do not collectively decide on punishments.
    Those are enshrined in law and executed by an independent judiciary branch. This is a process that does not require anybody's consent or agreement, apart from the few decisionmakers who fulfill specific roles within the bureaucracy to move along said process.
     
  6. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Do you think it is the Bible culture?
    In the Bible there is "an eye for an eye".
     
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  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Yes, but it's abit more than just that. The Bible says both "an eye for an eye" and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
    Some look to one, some look to the other.
    Such inconsistencies and contradictions are not good for social and legal policy.
     
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  8. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    And apart from the elected legislators who create the laws or who have not changed the laws.
     
  9. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    In Judaism, the commentaries have it that this is the maximum punishment, thus not necessarily the required punishment, as many of the prophets appealed to us having more mercy.
     
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  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That is true in the Baha'i Faith as well.

    “In the Aqdas Bahá’u’lláh has given death as the penalty for murder. However, He has permitted life imprisonment as an alternative. Both practices would be in accordance with His Laws. Some of us may not be able to grasp the wisdom of this when it disagrees with our own limited vision; but we must accept it, knowing His Wisdom, His Mercy and His Justice are perfect and for the salvation of the entire world.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 204
     
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  11. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    It exists
    Most always it is.
     
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  12. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Let me explain a little more. From my experiences....
    It seems many people who believe in a god are against abortion but are for the death penalty.
    It also seems many people who don't believe in a god are against the death penalty but are for abortion.

    There are some like me who don't believe in god, support the death penalty and appose abortion.

    In my opinion a baby in the womb is a life. It has a brain, a heart, etc just like you and I.
    It has to have oxygen, it has to have nutrition to survive. It moves, it feels, it experiences different things, etc just like you and I. It just isn't out of the womb yet.

    Also a child out of the womb is a helpless as a baby in the womb.
     
    #172 We Never Know, May 6, 2021
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  13. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Except from you having fallen to the appeal to emotion of the anti choicers and now are using that rhetoric yourself, what of those qualities does a murderer not have?
     
  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I agree, but if you check back that's not what you wrote.

    Totally agree.
     
  15. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    For the record: i believe no god exists, I do not oppose either the death penalty or abortion.

    I think the instances where you perceive contradictions stick out in your mind. There may be a correlation with those three beliefs, but I think you should be careful making generalizations about them.

    I have definitely met individuals with every possible permutation of those three beliefs.
     
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  16. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Along with the ultrasounds, feeling and seeing my children kick and move when my wife was pregnant is all I needed. I make my decisions based on me, not what others think or want.
     
  17. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    In most constitutional systems the legislative - by design - has no input on how any particular case is being judged.
    At best, they can limit from what punishments a judge or jury would be allowed to select from.
     
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  18. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Stepping back a second, you do agree that the legislative branch creates the laws by which these individuals are judged?

    So, when you say "has no input on how any particular case is being judged," you are correct but intentionally misleading.
     
  19. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    For the sake of the argument, most criminal law codes have remained largely unchanged for decades, if not centuries. They are expressions of popular will only in a very abstract, conceptual manner - many of them predate modern democracy, even.

    My fundamental point is that speaking judgement over people is not a consensual act. It is a form of violence - accepted, targeted, perhaps even necessary violence, but violence nonetheless. And, further, it is not an act of the community, but an act of bureaucracy, of an impersonal set of rules that governs behavior regardless of popular sentiment. Framing it as an expression of group consensus is, in my opinion, a mischaracterization of what is happening when judgement is rendered.
     
  20. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Please share with me the long list of criminal acts that you believe are not expressions of popular will.

    This seems tangential.
    Thos seems wholly inaccurate.

    In a democracy, that bureaucracy can only act with the authority given by the people. To try to point at "the state" or "the bureaucracy" as some evil boogeyman acting with its own will is very much to shift blame from where it truly belongs, with the people.
     
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