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The death penalty. Are you against it or for it?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by We Never Know, May 3, 2021.

?
  1. For it

    11 vote(s)
    32.4%
  2. Against it

    23 vote(s)
    67.6%
  1. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Here in the States, the homicide rate per 100,000 is overall higher in states that have capital punishment than those who don't.

    BTW, Michigan was the first state to eliminate it because the wrong person was executed.
     
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  2. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    In the U.S., 24 states still have the death penalty, while Canada has no death penalty anywhere. So, a couple of comparisons are in order (my stats are from the year 2000):
    • Canada, 1.8 homicides per 100,000 ---- U.S. 5.5 per 100,000, or 3 times higher
    • Canada, 61 sexual assaults per 100,000 ---- U.S. 135 per 100,000, or 2.2 times higher
    I would say the evidence shows that harsher punishments don't have the effect that many people assume they do.
     
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  3. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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  4. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    Not at all.
    There is a distinction between killing evil people and killing people in general.
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Abdu'l-Baha was one of the appointed interpreters of Baha'u'llah's writings and the Centre of His Covenant so he explained the writings of Baha'u'llah. That does not mean that what Baha'u'llah wrote was not clear.
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I was not suggesting that were remove all evil people who commit the crime of murder. I was saying that was the only 'surefire way' to get rid of them.... A better way would be for those evil people to choose not to murder.
     
  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    "Evil people" is not appropriate here as murder is often called a "crime of passion", namely that there are often other factors involved. However, that doesn't excuse murder, so please don't take it that way.

    Either way, since there are other options, I prefer being "pro-life" over being "pro-death".
     
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  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Thanks for the clarification, but I'm not fond of "getting rid of them"-- just my hang-up, I guess.
     
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  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I'm not I'm not fond of "getting rid of them" but I would like to get rid of the murders they commit.
     
  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    That would be nice, but I'm afraid that's not possible.
     
  11. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    No, i am not.
    Criminal courts deal with the harm against society. Stealing for instance. Sure you have taken something from someone, but you have also breached social agreements.

    Criminals have the right to remedy the harm to society. Allowing for punishment allows for criminals to remedy this harm.

    Order. Knowing that consequences exist for unlawful behavior builds trust that others will abide laws.
    Less energy, less worry, more convenience. Better is some way does not equal better.
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, probably not any time soon.
     
  13. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    The overwhelming majority of the victims of warfare are civilians, in a lot of cases women and children, who tend to be killed in similarly gruesome ways by combatants as the hypothetical children you are alluding to.
     
    #153 Kooky, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
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  14. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    Sorry, but as a point of order - we do not "allow" for punishment in a state-organized society, the state forces it on the criminal without the requirement of anybody's consent.
     
  15. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    War does have innocent casualties. Casualties of war are quite different from casualties of underage molestation and rape by grown men.
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    A lot of murderers aren't bad people. They were in wrong places at wrong times. They were in moments where emotions and tensions were heightened. They blackout. They intend to hurt, but not kill.
     
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  17. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it odd that.....
    "pro-life" people are against the death penalty and for abortion
    whereas
    "pro-death" people are against abortion and for the death penalty
     
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  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Try telling that to the judge and jury.
     
  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    If what Bahaollah wrote was clear, then there was no need for Abdul-Baha to write a 'tablet' about it. What a funny use of the word 'tablet'. Did Abdul-Baha write it on a piece of clay like the Mesopotamians did? Why don't you people do away with farce? Chacer's English and tablets! Gibberish like getteth, giveth, bringeth, shrinketh.
     
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  20. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I have also heard school children bemoan that education is forced upon them.

    And by "the state," i assume you mean "we."
     
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