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The death penalty. Are you against it or for it?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by We Never Know, May 3, 2021.

?
  1. For it

    11 vote(s)
    32.4%
  2. Against it

    23 vote(s)
    67.6%
  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Are there other reasons to opposite it in addition to "what if the prisoner is innocent?"

    I'm genuinely asking. That's the only argument I hear when talking against capitol punishment. That are less frequently using tax payers money or possible reformation.
     
  2. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    That depends on which philosophy you follow. Some would even say the perpetrator of the crime. Most would say society in general. Criminal court is not designed to "benefit" or provide remedy for the victim. Civil court does that.

    No, that is simply not true. But i didn't say "better at specifically deterring" i said a more pragmatic means of specific deterrence.
     
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  3. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Of course, but i am not sure what you are aiming at here. The way you have used words here demonstrates a lack of understanding of how I have used related words. Have you misunderstood me?
     
  4. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    That is correct. A murder is an unlawful killing. If there is no unlawful killing, then there could be no murder.

    But why would you be advocating for that?
     
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  5. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Generally use of the death penalty is more costly.

    Generally killing is supposed immoral.

    Statistics don't show a correlation with general deterrence and death penalties.

    And people can change.
     
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  6. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
    Premium Member

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    We're talking about criminal law that applies to everyone, so you're apparently suggesting that everyone follow whatever philosophy you had in mind.

    Killing a murderer pays back a debt to the murderer?

    If you want me to take this idea seriously, you'd have to explain how this would work.


    So what benefit does society get from this "payment"?

    I know.

    How is it "more pragmatic"?

    And if "more pragmatic" doesn't translate to "better" in some way, why should we care?
     
  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I am against the death penalty because I am pro-life, and the death penalty serves no purpose in today's world with there being prisons and jails except for purposes of revenge. Some Christians today only seemingly see "pro-life" in terms of abortion, but the reality is that there are many different areas that are also pro-life.
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    Do you think many use the morality as a primary reason?

    For example, I don't base if CP is wrong morally because (if they connect this) of cost and possible innocence. Many moral defenses are by religious but I haven't heard support by the non religious.

    Thanks for answering by the way.
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Sorry, the definitions came that way off the internet....
    There is nothing to talk about because I do not want to argue about this. I have my opinions and you have yours, and never the twain shall meet.
     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I did not say that I refuse to consider the possibility that the accused is innocent.
    I said that I believe the death penalty is ethical when warranted.
    No, it is not.
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No, the only surefire way to get rid of murder and murderers would be to remove all evil people who commit the crime of murder.
     
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  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    It wasn't an argument. I was replying to another and you just copy and pasted def out of nowhere. Kind of like throwing up a red stop sign while I'm driving on someone else's street.

    What was the point you were making in that post?

    Even if I wanted to argue, I have no clue what you wrote and your point even if I wanted to address it with that intent.
     
  13. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    I don't quite understand the rationale behind this. Why do you think this way?
    How does murder being wrong leads to capital punishment also being wrong?
    I would only see that as the case if by murder we meant every single instance of human killing.

    No right is absolute though.
     
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  14. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    By definition, murder is illegal killing. If we made all killing legal, then there would be no murder.
     
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  15. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    It is a perception of justice.
    Do you think it is just for people to be punished by their crimes? Do you see justice in punishing people for doing evil?
    If you don't, it is gonna be pretty hard to explain why many of us see capital punishment as the proper way to deal with murderers.
     
  16. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    Nah, it's really simple. It's the archaic idea of cosmic balance - one life taken must be balanced with another life taken.

    In ancient times and cultures, before the advent of strong central governments, people would often deal with this directly via familial or clan-based retribution; a kill had to be answered with a kill, but if people did not agree over the retribution being justified, this could spiral into counter-retributions and counter-counter retributions, in potentially endless spirals of violence, i.e. blood feuds.

    One of the first powers the first kings and queens wrested from the people they ruled over was the power to speak the law, the power to judge in such disputes, as a neutral party with the power over life and death.
     
  17. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    The justice would be him having the same life as the little girl, none.
     
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  18. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    It is more like: If you don't feel it is right to kill murderers, if you don't feel it in your bones, how do I explain what it is like to you?
    How do I explain what it is like to feel that not punishing a murderer is almost as bad as murdering someone?
     
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  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    You said: If a murderer kills another murderer it's still murder. Innocence doesn't matter.

    I posted the definition of murderer because a murderer is one who commits the crime of murder
    I posted the definition of crime because a crime is an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government.

    A person who carries out the death penalty is by definition not a murderer because he is not committing a crime.
    He is punishing someone for a crime that was committed.

    Definition of murderer
    : one who murders especially : one who commits the crime of murder
    Definition of MURDERER.

    Definition of crime
    1 : an illegal act for which someone can be punished by the government especially : a gross violation of law
    Definition of CRIME
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    True.
     
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