The Danger of Chaos Magic

[Azakel]

Now in this thread I'm not saying it wrong to practice Magic, well Chaos Magic. I found something that explains the danger in practicing it, it not to tell people not to ether, but on what to expect when one drive into the world and how to be ready for it. I'm also going to comment each part(it will be in blue).

[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Do I look like someone who cares what God thinks?
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]- Clive Barker[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]I like Clive Barker ^_^
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Yes children, the practice of Chaos Magic can be dangerous. Any experience designed to deconstruct one's reality carries with it certain risks. I have personally known people who have had a head-on collision with disaster due to their use of magic. Magical practices involve controlled induction of "temporary insanity", and for some this becomes all too permanent.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]However, in every case the unfortunate victim had only themselves to blame, for they disregarded certain safety precautions, as well as ignoring simple common sense. Driving a car or even crossing the street is also fraught with peril if one is unaware or unprepared. Or stupid. Especially stupid.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]The danger zones are really easy to identify and prepare for with a little forethought. This chapter will discuss the most common traps and how to avoid them.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]I agree, one must know about what ones going into. If not it could hurt them and hurt them bad.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Fear
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]This is invariably the first danger encountered by the magician. The first time one gets results from a magical operation (especially one that involves profound psychological changes), a common reaction is one of fear -- even if the results are exactly as was expected. If the results are weird, surprising and/or totally unexpected, as magical results often are, the fear may be almost overwhelming. This reaction can be compared to that which often is experienced by the use of psychedelic drugs.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]But the proper approach is not to try to eliminate all fear -- this is commonly known as stupidity. Rather, one must confront one's fears and learn to control them. Once this is accomplished, fear can be a powerful magical tool. The history of the occult is full of stories of the "cruel guru" (i.e. Casteneda's Don Juan), who exploits the students fears in order to enlighten or initiate them.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Religious types, in particular the Christians (at least in Western cultures) have explioted fear with great effect. As a practicing magician, one is of course doomed to eternal punishment in the fiery pits of Hell. For most people drawn to the occult, this is a minor consideration, and is dismissed as a just another religious boogy-man. But a lifetime of immersion in a particular religious system can have long-lasting effects. Often someone is attracted to magic as a rebellion aganst their upbringing, and there are unresolved subconscious issues that can cause great distress, especially if the magic seems to be working! Some teachers of magic advise a course of psychotherapy before embarking on magical practice. Chaos Magicians seem to be of the persuasion that regards magic AS psychotherapy and if a crack-up occurs, it was going to happen eventually anyway -- magic just accelerated the process. Often a crack-up is what a particular person needed to learn and evolve. Magic is a head-on confrontation with one's own reality.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]But the main problem of fear as it relates to magic is it's propesity to evolve into it's more dangerous cousin, paranoia.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]When I really talk about having no fear, this is what I mean. It's not having a total loss of fear, but controlling it. It's like when you hear Budo Masters talking about having no fear this is what they mean. If you can face them head on and learn to use them, the become a power tool.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Paranoia and Meglomania
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]It has been said that even paranoids have real enemies -- something probably first said by a magician! As pointed out above, certain religious types are sworn enemies of magicians. But this is not the real problem. A certain amount of "paranoia" is a good thing, as it keeps one aware of danger. More importantly, it keeps one skeptical of the results of one's magical work. But the downside is a very enticing trap to fall into.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]It begins when one is encouraged by some early magical success, and the world seems to be in magical attunment with one's needs and desires. Luck seems to break one's way consistantly, and this is taken as some kind of indication that they have found their "true calling" in life, and are some sort of important Magical Avatar of the New Aeon or somesuch silliness.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]I agree that paranoia can be good at times, it up keep you aware of thing that could hurt you. And with in the Magical world you knows. But letting it get to you to much can be bad, you start seeing devils and deamons every where.
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[Azakel]

[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]And so we come to paranoia's ******* sibling, meglomania.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]When one has decided that one has "enemies", and cannot attribute this situation to their own false perceptions, then one seeks justification for being the target of such negative attention. The usual reason arrived at is that one is a very powerful and important mage with a destiny of some great importance to the human race. Accordingly, those who would seek to thwart this great destiny are actively working to destroy this powerful and important mage.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Once this spiralling nose-dive has been entered, it can be very difficult to pull out. This is one of the great reasons why having a well-developed sense of humor is so damn important -- it helps keep one from taking oneself too seriously, which is the first step down this dangerous path to insanity or oblivion.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]I know this one all to well, and I was in the this place once. I join a group online that has this thought that we are vary important people, strong Mages here to save the world. I pulled myself out. I will not say though that they are wrong though, that is not my place and for all I know they could be right. But for the time being, I not one of them.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Obssession
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]One can easily become obssessed with magic, since it is such a damn fascinating subject. But not everyone might share this belief, and trying to relate every single human experience to one's personal interpretation of magic can be stupifyingly boring to your friends and aquaintances -- even those who might share your interest! Luckily, this is less dangerous than fear or paranoia/meglomania and more easily cured -- people will eventually start telling you to shut the hell up. The risk here is that one might take this highly proper advice to shut the hell up as evidence of the great occult conspiracy to deprive the world of it's next great magical avatar, and off we go to the land of paranoia.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Basically, if you find yourself with no other interests in life than your magic, you should get out more often. The hypotrophy of the magical self is as much of a mistake as over-amplifying any other aspect of one's life.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Hehe, I didn't have to worry about this one. Well I wasn't the kind to go on and on about it in RL. I learn not to because of how I can go on about video games and it would be the same thing, not everyone wants to hear about it even if they like them like you.
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[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Copyright ©1998, 1999 by Joseph Max. All rights reserved.[/FONT]

Hear's his Copyright, and hears his site Techniques Of Chaos Magic

Discuss

 

[stacey bo bacey]

This is really interesting. I know absolutely nothing about Chaos Magic or Magic at all but this was cool to read!

 

[Guitar's Cry]

[FONT=Arial,Helv,Helvetica]Yes children, the practice of Chaos Magic can be dangerous. Any experience designed to deconstruct one's reality carries with it certain risks. [/FONT]

Especially with Chaos Magic.

I think that those who get into Chaos Magic--aside from those who like the stigma associated with it--have certain philosophical leanings and interests that tend towards reality deconstruction. Chaos Magic could be considered the mystical side of Magic, in the same way Kabbalism is the mystical side of Judaism, Gnosticism to Christianity, Sufism to Islam, and so on.

With mysticism, reality is necessarily deconstructed, as it deals with the discovery of a person's relationship with their own existence.

Like any other danger, education and having friendly mentors provides a lot of safety.

 

[blackout]

Once this spiralling nose-dive has been entered, it can be very difficult to pull out. This is one of the great reasons why having a well-developed sense of humor is so damn important -- it helps keep one from taking oneself too seriously, which is the first step down this dangerous path to insanity or oblivion.

Totally. Sense of humor and ability to laugh at one's self is an absolute must.

Great post!
I'll be back to it when I have more time.
but for now... GTG.....

 

[MoonWater]

At the risk of going off topic... I'm confused as to why people keep bringing up the idea of "reality deconstruction". My understanding of magic is that it has nothing to do with deconstructing reality and even can't, but rather that magic is a way to change and manipulate reality. Maybe someone could explain to me what they mean when they say "reality deconstruction"? Also the post offers some good advice but it seems to me that the dangers it brings up are ones that are quite obvious dangers that anyone and everyone has to deal with, not just those who work with magic.

 

[Azakel]

At the risk of going off topic... I'm confused as to why people keep bringing up the idea of "reality deconstruction". My understanding of magic is that it has nothing to do with deconstructing reality and even can't, but rather that magic is a way to change and manipulate reality. Maybe someone could explain to me what they mean when they say "reality deconstruction"? Also the post offers some good advice but it seems to me that the dangers it brings up are ones that are quite obvious dangers that anyone and everyone has to deal with, not just those who work with magic.

Reality deconstruction is more apart of Chaos Magic then mainstream practitioner of Magic. It has to do with understand that in this world "Nothing is real, Everything is permitted." To brake it down and make it work for you anyway you want. Not sure if this makes sense, it's 4:50 am right now.
And yes the advice he gives are ones that are quit obvious ones that can apply to anyone any where, but you will run in to these thing more within the world of practitioners(at lest in my on experience). But one must also remember, it might be common sense, but not everyone use common sense.

 

[Azakel]

I would also like to add on about reality deconstruction. In must traditional practices of magic the way they are worked are seen as being part of reality. But within Chaos Magic one doesn't all was(or even at all) do these things traditional. Usually one might take a ritual like the LBRP and use being from SciFI or Fantasy instead of the name of God and his Angel. Braking down reality and using something from out side it. This can be seen a lot within ChM. Doing outside the traditional. Like one of my favorite Evocation:

Sephiroth, the mighty angel of death:
Hear my call o' spirit of great wrath.

Sephiroth, the one that possesseth the knowledge of the ancients:
Hear my call o' soul of dark.

Sephiroth, the one infused with Jenova:
Hear my call!

Thou shalt grant me Knowledge of The Ancients.
Thou shalt grant me Knowledge of The Cosmos.
Thou shalt grant me Knowledge of all Magick.

Thy magickal power of Meteor shalt be mine!
Thy magikcal power over fire, earth, air, and water shalt be mine!
Thy power over the infinite cosmos shalt be mine!

Thou shalt grant me, and thou shalt infuse me with the great power and vast knowledge of thy mother Jenova!

Power over the lifestream shalt be mine!
Power over all things dark and light shalt be mine!

These thing thou shalt grant me without question,
with haste they will be mine!

Heed my word, and grant me thy strength!

Thus with closing, have you granted me all I commandeth!

So be it!

 

[Troublemane]

This is exactly why I am against the very idea of naming something as "dark magick", or "chaos magick"---because Magick is the Cosmic Mirror of Creation, a path into the trackless void, from which you will always GET EXACTLY what you ask for.

So, when you set out with an intent to practice something titled "Chaos magick" one is setting oneself up for disaster. MAGICK encompasses all opposites, including Order and Chaos equally. By renouncing Order and focussing only on Chaos, the practitioner is already lost his balance, and will plunge into the void. It happens if you go the other way as well---pure order is equally a path to insanity.

Ill take my magick straight, thanks bar-tender! As I have learned the less I try to name it or limit it, and the less I try to impose my will upon it (but let it impose its will upon me) the more my karma tends to seem as flexible as Gumby!---which is really fun, almost all the time! :angel2:

so, to sum up---chaos? ...meh. its only half the story, tends to be messy, and is headed by some guy named Siegfried.

 

[Azakel]

This is exactly why I am against the very idea of naming something as "dark magick", or "chaos magick"---because Magick is the Cosmic Mirror of Creation, a path into the trackless void, from which you will always GET EXACTLY what you ask for.

So, when you set out with an intent to practice something titled "Chaos magick" one is setting oneself up for disaster. MAGICK encompasses all opposites, including Order and Chaos equally. By renouncing Order and focussing only on Chaos, the practitioner is already lost his balance, and will plunge into the void. It happens if you go the other way as well---pure order is equally a path to insanity.

Ill take my magick straight, thanks bar-tender! As I have learned the less I try to name it or limit it, and the less I try to impose my will upon it (but let it impose its will upon me) the more my karma tends to seem as flexible as Gumby!---which is really fun, almost all the time! :angel2:

so, to sum up---chaos? ...meh. its only half the story, tends to be messy, and is headed by some guy named Siegfried.

How do you define Chaos? I think most people do really understand what Chaos means in Chaos Magic. It's not meant as the opposite of Order, but meant as Creation(which is what Chaos meant before use it to mean something other then Order). I think some people need to read a bit more about something before the know the whole thing. Not saying you're like that Troublemane. But a lot of people think that Chaos Magicians don't have balance and have lost it, not all of use, there's more to understand about it then what people think.

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"Chaos comes before all principles of order & entropy, it's neither a god nor a maggot, its idiotic desires encompass & define every possible choreography, all meaningless aethers & phlogistons, its masks are crystallizations of its own facenessness, like clouds...Chaos never died."
- Hakim Bey, T.A.Z.

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http://www.spiralnature.com/magick/chaos/


Edit(I wanted to add something): One more way for one to see it is that Chaos come before all, it is what create, order is just one way of putting it in place.
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[MoonWater]

Reality deconstruction is more apart of Chaos Magic then mainstream practitioner of Magic. It has to do with understand that in this world "Nothing is real, Everything is permitted." To brake it down and make it work for you anyway you want. Not sure if this makes sense, it's 4:50 am right now.
And yes the advice he gives are ones that are quit obvious ones that can apply to anyone any where, but you will run in to these thing more within the world of practitioners(at lest in my on experience). But one must also remember, it might be common sense, but not everyone use common sense.

I see. k, thanks for the explanation. I'll probably have to do a lot more research before I fully understand it but it's a start. Thanks again.

 

[Troublemane]

How do you define Chaos? I think most people do really understand what Chaos means in Chaos Magic. It's not meant as the opposite of Order, but meant as Creation(which is what Chaos meant before use it to mean something other then Order).... One more way for one to see it is that Chaos come before all, it is what create, order is just one way of putting it in place.

Yeah I can see that side of it, and I do appreciate the antinomian appeal, seeing "Chaos" as the primal, undifferentiated oneness of Being before there were any particular things. Another name for the TAO, or IAO. (I love Hakim Bey, btw). But in my mind, Chaos Magick is (in that sense) redundant---since the Magus is one in whom all dualities are done away with; as a master of illusion (ie, Maya) he cannot be subject to illusion, so any fixed idea such as "chaos" or "order", "determinism" or "randomness"--any preconceived notion of certainty or uncertainty, neither one can find a home in him for long. So, thats really my prime objection,... that and I think Peter Carroll is a hack, but thats just a personal criticism of his work, which is about as depthful as a compact disc.

 

[Azakel]

Well I guess all we'll be doing now is fighting over different ways of thinking ^_^

 

[kidkunjer]

funny you should see it that way, I'ver always considered NOT deconstructing reality and your relationship with it as dangerous...

 

[no-body]

Chaos magic sounds fascinating, though the only "experience" I have with it is reading the invisibles and some summaries on what it is.

From my (limited) understanding of the material it seems like a manipulation of placebo and affirmations.

Don't see how this is any more dangerous than any other spiritual practice.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Totally. Sense of humor and ability to laugh at one's self is an absolute must.

Great post!
I'll be back to it when I have more time.
but for now... GTG.....

"Banish With Laughter!"

 

[Jacksnyte]

funny you should see it that way, I'ver always considered NOT deconstructing reality and your relationship with it as dangerous...

Aee-Meeyun!

 

[Jacksnyte]

Chaos magic sounds fascinating, though the only "experience" I have with it is reading the invisibles and some summaries on what it is.

From my (limited) understanding of the material it seems like a manipulation of placebo and affirmations.

Don't see how this is any more dangerous than any other spiritual practice.

Actually, there is a lot of high weirdness that happens when you delve deeply into chaos magick! I have had a LOT of extremely STRANGE things go on! Results happen a lot more obviously than in standard ceremonial magick!

 

[joeyhouchin]

Is there any physical danger? Or just mental?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Is there any physical danger? Or just mental?

There's a lot of philosophy and mysticism that goes into chaos magic, the most basic being the deconstruction of reality. Whenever one deconstructs reality and looks in on themselves, there's always a risk for psychological damage.