1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The creator did it.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by A REAL CHRISTIAN, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    8,428
    Ratings:
    +3,673
    Religion:
    Gnostic Atheism
    If He does not want, and yet it happens, then His Will will not be done. Tough Luck J.
    Maybe You will do a better job with the next Universe.

    I hope you are joking. Taking the passover weekend off for our sins actually paid for our sins? That was very cheap. I thought my sins were important. Dunno,requiring to stay dead at least a month?

    So, I assume you all have a personal relationship with the lord. I wonder what you guys talk about with him during those relationships, the weather? since you seem to disagree on very basic stuff.

    Yes, to think about. Is 3 minutes enough? I dont want to be too disrespectful.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  2. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    15,310
    Ratings:
    +3,586
    Religion:
    Pi π
    That’s precisely the reasons I now approach the Bible with certain amounts of skepticism.

    I used to beileve in the Bible and took at its face value, since my older sister gave me one when I was 15. Although I never join a church, I did believe what the Bible say without closely examining the verses and narrative.

    It wasn’t until 2000 that I had my first doubt. It was Matthew 1:23 interpretation of Isaiah 7:14.

    From there and elsewhere I began to compare other parts of the Bible against known historical and geographical information.

    I have always been interested in myths and history, but most of attention were that of ancestors Greece and Rome, and medieval Europe, not the Near East. But in the last 12-13 years I have been focusing on Egypt, Mesopotamia and the Levant.
     
    #1402 gnostic, Mar 13, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. joelr

    joelr Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    648
    Ratings:
    +252
    Well technically the snake wasn't Satan. In those days satan worked for god as the angel of death, was allowed to torture Job, god was judge and satan a prosecuter in the trial of the nation of Judah, they had some type of partnership. Much later the story changed to everything bad is satan and he's gods big enemy. Which makes no sense because they are clearly on good terms in the stories?


    "The word "satan" does not occur in the Book of Genesis,[15] which mentions only a talking serpent[15] and does not identify the serpent with any supernatural entity.["
    "The idea of Satan as an opponent of God and a purely evil figure seems to have taken root in Jewish pseudepigrapha during the Second Temple Period,[31] particularly in the apocalypses"


    2nd section "Historical Development"
    Satan - Wikipedia
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    5,441
    Ratings:
    +1,588
    Religion:
    Christian
    Its such an interesting study.. There is so much more than just the poetic history of the Hebrews. I find it utterly fascinating.
     
  5. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Messages:
    802
    Ratings:
    +467
    Religion:
    Sikh
    When did DC get hold it for Lucifer Morningstar?
     
  6. joelr

    joelr Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    648
    Ratings:
    +252
    Marvel made "Satan" a position that different underworld demons can claim if they become powerful enough to challenge for it.
    Currently it's not shown if it is held by anyone but Mephisto is the lord of the bad afterlife where Earth sinners go - Hell.
    Satan did make an appearance once in Defenders, Mephisto was there and his son Hellstrom and a bunch of other low demons. The actual Satan showed up and they were surprised.
    Then Hela rules the Asgardian dark underworld in Hel.

    I don't know D.C. enough, I prefer Marvel.
     
  7. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Messages:
    802
    Ratings:
    +467
    Religion:
    Sikh
    Lucifer Morningstar
     
  8. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,393
    Ratings:
    +2,554
    Religion:
    Christian
    I guess you need another one of your trusted links revealing the disingenuous nature of Haekel’s drawings, which you are trying to justify (LOL): by PZ Myers, no less:

    “In the case of Haeckel, though, I have to begin by admitting that Wells has got the core of the story right. Haeckel was wrong. His theory was invalid, some of his drawings were faked, and he willfully over-interpreted the data to prop up a false thesis. Furthermore, he was influential, both in the sciences and the popular press; his theory still gets echoed in the latter today. Wells is also correct in criticizing textbook authors for perpetuating Haeckel's infamous diagram without commenting on its inaccuracies or the way it was misused to support a falsified theory.”

    Take it to heart, SZ.
     
  9. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,022
    Ratings:
    +808

    Cool how you stopped quoting there - the very next sentence:

    "Unfortunately, what Wells tries to do in this chapter is to take this invalid, discredited theory and tar modern (and even not so modern) evolutionary biology with it. The biogenetic law is not Darwinism or neo-Darwinism, however. It is not part of any modern evolutionary theory. Wells is carrying out a bait-and-switch here, marshalling the evidence and citations that properly demolish the Haeckelian dogma, and then claiming that this is part of "our best evidence for Darwin's theory.""​


    In addition, Myers is referring to Haeckel's theory, not the ToE. Haeckel's drawings have not been used to support evolution in any way for close to 100 years (though embryology does present some very good evidence for evolution, the propaganda of the Moony Wells be dmned). EVERY text I have that shows his drawings explicitly explains that his ideas were wrong.

    Pity that creationists rely on this sort of "argument" rather than presenting evidence that actually supports their creation story.
     
    #1409 tas8831, Mar 20, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  10. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,022
    Ratings:
    +808
    You present yourself as being knowledgeable of the issues surrounding Haeckel - please tell us what Haeckel's theory was, how his drawings were being used, etc.

    Without linking to essays or copy-pasting.
     
  11. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    9,645
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    Religion:
    None
    Cruel
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    9,645
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    Religion:
    None
    "Cool how you stopped quoting". It was
    really a gift, another perfect example of, yes,
    intellectual dishonesty.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    4,393
    Ratings:
    +2,554
    Religion:
    Christian
    No, it wasn’t, Audie....Mr. Myers’ further statements (about Wells) simply had no bearing on the point being made, which was that Ernst Haekel was dishonest with his fudged drawings (highlighting the similarities but blurring the differences), yet Myers admitted that they’re still being used in textbooks today.

    So don’t go there.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    21,439
    Ratings:
    +11,753
    Religion:
    Atheist
    But that has been shown to be a false claim by creationists. In one case when a publishing deadline was due he repeated a couple of drawings with minimal differences. Those were corrected, without any creationist goading, in later editions. And they are used to illustrate the history of the theory, but his drawings are not used as evidence today. Especially since some of Haeckel's ideas have been refuted. Physiology does not repeat ontology.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    9,645
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    Religion:
    None


    What interests me is your use of the word "dishonest".

    You must then be our first creationist to see the
    dishonesty in the noted Dr. K Wise statement
    that if all the evidence in the universe went against
    his religious views (yec) he would still be a yec.

    Maybe you can explain it to your benighted breathren!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,022
    Ratings:
    +808
    So then surely you can show us an example of Haeckel's drawings being used in textbooks TODAY as support for either Haeckel's ideas of the ToE.

    I mean, you CAN CAN do that, right?

    HINT: That is NOT the case in any of the 8 or 9 college level general biology or evolution-related texts I have, but I am sure you will know about several modern texts that do.

    I don't care what PZ Myers said.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,022
    Ratings:
    +808

    By the way - you must have missed this:

    You present yourself as being knowledgeable of the issues surrounding Haeckel - please tell us what Haeckel's theory was, how his drawings were being used, etc.

    Without linking to essays or copy-pasting.
     
  18. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,022
    Ratings:
    +808
    Yup - I love that standard creationist "I knew it all along" bit...
    Typically employed when they realize that they can no longer hide the fact that they have no idea...
     
  19. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    9,645
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    Religion:
    None
    yet Myers admitted that they’re still being used in textbooks today.

    Yes, we would not any of them dishonest
    statements to be publicized.

    Side note, IF it were all true as the creos claim,
    that ws Dr. H did was intentionally dishonest, a fraud
    of some sort, then...so, exactly, what?

    It means the whole ToE is wrong?

    What?

    Are "Mars canals" a fraud too?
    Why arent creos equally outraged by that?
    Tracing the Canals of Mars: An Astronomer's Obsession
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    9,645
    Ratings:
    +4,473
    Religion:
    None
    Since "honesty" and, "intellectual honesty" are
    a topic, I wonder if someone would like to
    submit one (1) intellectually honest objection
    to the ToE. Something that purports to disprove
    it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...