The Creationistic Method and Why It Is Fraudulent

[DavidFirth]

Word salad and balderdash.

Have you not heard the aphorism "it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt"?

Sorry, but I think it foolish to accept these allegations based on assumptions as facts.

 

[sayak83]

Sorry, but I do not accept those as proof. An "educated guess" at best that could just be wrong (and of course I believe it is wrong).

Whether you accept evidence or not is upto you. The evidence exists and it is convincing to anyone who studies it in any detail. The current laws of atomic physics forbids crystals from having certain atoms in them when they form. When those atoms are found within the crystals, atoms that cannot be in the crystal when they formed, the inescapable conclusion is that they are the product of radioactive decay.

 

[SkepticThinker]

1. If I was able to provide evidence that contradicts evolution it would in now way magically create support for creationism? It wouldn't be magic, it would be "logical".

2. The bible does not provide verifiable evidence of anything? Correct, but that does not mean it's entirely wrong either.

3. Unless I can prove that the laws of nature did not exist 6,000 years ago don't bring it up? Okay.

God could have used evolution to change species? Correct but God did not plant life, the angels planted life, God just caused the evolutionary change events (Punctuated Equilibrium) to happen.

The scientists came up with the scientific method? They did, it doesn't always work well and certainly cannot explain what truly gives life "life", even the angels have trouble explaining it because they only know bits of truth.

There is no verifiable evidence that the bible is 100% accurate? If that is the standard then I think many scientific theories lose credibility. Einstein was not 100% accurate.

We have no evidence that Moses or Noah existed? Uhh, we have the bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Just because some of the bible is story does not mean that all of the characters are fabricated. If you want to make the claim that the characters did not exist then please provide your evidence. You have some, right?

Logic is not truth. Logic is a conclusion that follows a stated premise. If a stated premise is wrong, and thus the conclusion is wrong, that is a logical statement, even though it is wrong.

Many scientific theories were doubted by scientists at first and then, over time, came to be accepted.

Poking holes in the theory of evolution doesn't prove creationism, it proves that the scientists don't have all the answers.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? This is a common claim by atheists, it gives you quite a debating advantage. Before I will accept this I will have to look at your evidence for this claim. Uh, you have some, don't you? Or is it something you atheists just made up?

We can't believe something without verifiable evidence? Sure we can. Just because you can't doesn't mean that I can't and that others can't or shouldn't. The universe does not obey your made up standards.

Recently someone argued that 6,000 years ago the laws of nature did not apply? There's all kinds of stupid out there. We all have our moments, I've had a few.

You're trying to use your incorrect definition of logic to argue that creationism is wrong. You can't.

Wow. It's like you've set out out illustrate the points laid out in the OP. You couldn't have done it more perfectly.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sorry, but I think it foolish to accept these allegations based on assumptions as facts.

Why do you assume the Bible is true?

 

[DavidFirth]

Whether you accept evidence or not is upto you. The evidence exists and it is convincing to anyone who studies it in any detail. The current laws of atomic physics forbids crystals from having certain atoms in them when they form. When those atoms are found within the crystals, atoms that cannot be in the crystal when they formed, the inescapable conclusion is that they are the product of radioactive decay.

There is another possibility. That they were created as is.

Also, the evidence you refer to can be interpreted in different ways.

 

[DavidFirth]

Why do you assume the Bible is true?

Because it all fits together and is perfect in its morals.

Later, after I became a Christian, the Holy Spirit revealed to me that it is in fact the truth.

 

[sayak83]

There is another possibility. That they were created as is.

Also, the evidence you refer to can be interpreted in different ways.

Which would imply a deceitful God, why did He not create crystals where incompatible atoms coexist together for atomic elements that are not products of radioactive decay? Why do such incompatible matching only found for elements that are part of the radioactive decay series?

Please provide an example of a different way.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Because it all fits together and is perfect in its morals.

Later, after I became a Christian, the Holy Spirit revealed to me that it is in fact the truth.

Do you consider that evidence that would convince anyone other than yourself?

(I beg to differ on the perfect morality claim, of course. I don't think slavery or stoning unruly children are moral things.)

 

[DavidFirth]

Which would imply a deceitful God, why did He not create crystals where incompatible atoms coexist together for atomic elements that are not products of radioactive decay? Why do such incompatible matching only found for elements that are part of the radioactive decay series?

Please provide an example of a different way.

God is not deceitful if He told you the truth and you chose not to believe Him.

 

[DavidFirth]

Do you consider that evidence that would convince anyone other than yourself?

(I beg to differ on the perfect morality claim, of course. I don't think slavery is a moral thing.)

It has convinced 2.2 billion people on this planet.

The Bible does not promote slavery. It does not say that slavery is a good thing, it only tell us how we should deal with it.

 

[sayak83]

God is not deceitful if He told you the truth and you chose not to believe Him.

You did a dodge there. Please ask the Holy Spirit to provide an answer to the question I posed.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It has convinced 2.2 billion people on this planet.

Yeah, and the Koran has convinced a billion people as well. Lots of people have believed in lots of different gods throughout human history. They have all been convinced by different things. That doesn't make any of them true.

The Bible does not promote slavery. It does not say that slavery is a good thing, it only tell us how we should deal with it.

Sure it does, and not only that, it provides instruction on how to do it properly, including how to beat a slave. If god didn't want us having slavery, then instead of going on about how to do it, he should have just said "Thall shalt not own other people as property," like he supposedly did with murder and adultery.

 

[DavidFirth]

You did a dodge there. Please ask the Holy Spirit to provide an answer to the question I posed.

I find your reference to the Holy Spirit in that way particularly offensive. No need for further discussion.

 

[DavidFirth]

Yeah, and the Koran has convinced a billion people as well. Lots of people have believed in lots of different gods throughout human history. They have all been convinced by different things. That doesn't make any of them true.



Sure it does, and not only that, it provides instruction on how to do it properly, including how to beat a slave. If god didn't want us having slavery, then instead of going on about how to do it, he should have just said "Thall shalt not own other people as property," like he supposedly did with murder and adultery.

It provides rules and guidelines. It does not promote slavery. If it does, I challenge you to post the verse here.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It provides rules and guidelines. It does not promote slavery. If it does, I challenge you to post the verse here.

Perhaps you could address my point.

No where that I know of, does the Bible say that slavery is bad, or that it's immoral or anything along those lines. God apparently has no problem stating that all kinds of things are bad (many worthy of a death sentence) in the 600 or so commandments he supposedly gave, but when it comes to slavery ... not so much. And instead, we find instructions on how to properly beat them. I'm not sure what you find moral about that or how you can defend it.

 

[DavidFirth]

Perhaps you could address my point.

No where that I know of, does the Bible say that slavery is bad, or that it's immoral or anything along those lines. God apparently has no problem stating that all kinds of things are bad (many worthy of a death sentence) in the 600 or so commandments he supposedly gave, but when it comes to slavery ... not so much. And instead, we find instructions on how to properly beat them. I'm not sure what you find moral about that or how you can defend it.

It states under what circumstances a slave should be beaten and why. Slavery among the Hebrews was voluntary back in those days, a way of paying one's debts. You could either sit in prison or serve as a slave. And all Hebrew slaves were to be freed every 7 years, I believe.

Others taken as slaves during war would have been put to death otherwise.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It states under what circumstances a slave should be beaten and why. Slavery among the Hebrews was voluntary back in those days, a way of paying one's debts. You could either sit in prison or serve as a slave. And all Hebrew slaves were to be freed every 7 years, I believe.

Others taken as slaves during war would have been put to death otherwise.

It wasn't voluntary for non-Hebrews. Or if you could trick your Hebrew slave into taking a wife.

Perhaps you could address my point now. Why couldn't god just say slavery is immoral, if it is indeed, immoral? Or do morals change, according to God's whims?

 

[DavidFirth]

It wasn't voluntary for non-Hebrews. Or if you could trick your Hebrew slave into taking a wife.

Perhaps you could address my point now. Why couldn't god just say slavery is immoral, if it is indeed, immoral? Or do morals change, according to God's whims?

First question: You are asking me to explain why God did or did not say something. You'd have to ask Him, I can't answer that.

Second question: Morals don't change with God. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

 

[SkepticThinker]

First question: You are asking me to explain why God did or did not say something. You'd have to ask Him, I can't answer that.

I'm asking you to justify your claims that,

"Because it all fits together and is perfect in its morals.

Later, after I became a Christian, the Holy Spirit revealed to me that it is in fact the truth."


I find them confusing in light of what the Bible says.

Second question: Morals don't change with God. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Is slavery moral today? Is it moral to stone unruly children or homosexuals to death in 2017?

It seems like the morals you speak of actually do change over time.

 

[DavidFirth]

I'm asking you to justify your claims that,

"Because it all fits together and is perfect in its morals.

Later, after I became a Christian, the Holy Spirit revealed to me that it is in fact the truth."


I find them confusing in light of what the Bible says.


Is slavery moral today? Is it moral to stone unruly children or homosexuals to death in 2017?

It seems like the morals you speak of actually do change over time.

You would have to tell me why you're confused in light of what the Bible says.

People's morals change, God's morals never change. This is what bothers people today. Society accepts many things that God does not accept.