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The creation of Adam and Evolution

Ya Ali

Member

Abrahamic religions agree that Adam and Eve were the first creations on Earth, but Science today has proven with highest precision that Evolution is truth and a fact, so it is very easy for scientific atheists do disprove this theory, that Adam was the first man on Earth. So we have the very important question which is did religious scholars misinterpret the religious scriptures? Ahmed al-Hasan a.s. in the book "Atheism Delusion" has explained that Evolution disproves the belief of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim Scholars and their followers that man suddenly appears.

"Is Creationism (Single or Multiple Bursts) Acceptable, Based on the Scientific Method?

In reality, whoever has a basic scientific background in evolution and how it actually works; or has read a book by any evolution scientist and their refutation of the arguments against evolution; or has even just read the book that Darwin wrote in the 19th century, which included his response to many arguments; and then reads the books written by those who call themselves religious authorities and scholars, will find that they address issues they know nothing about. They do not even understand evolution, or how it occurs according to evolution scientists. Instead, they have understood evolution in a backward way, and then proceeded to argue in an extremely superficial and simplistic manner based on that backward understanding. We also find them repeating Darwin's original arguments—that he had already presented and refuted in his book—similar to how they present superficial arguments in an attempt to refute the accuracy of the principles and methods of historical geology used to determine the age of the older rock layers, even though the accuracy of these methods is undeniable. They argue against the theory of evolution, asking why the circumcision of children is not inherited, and why an ape that is trained to walk does not pass the walking trait down to its offspring. When average people read these arguments, people who do not know what evolution is—they might fall for them. But they are simplistic arguments to those who understand the theory of evolution and how it works. The traits that are inherited by the next generation are those written in the genetic plan of the organism. They are not acquired traits, like the walking of a trained ape or the circumcision of a child. or the circumcision of a child. This is self-evident to evolutionary biologists.

On the other hand, some people who challenge the theory of evolution assume that evolutionary biology states that compound and complex organs such as the eye came into existence through a single mutation. Not even Darwin says that, let alone modern scientists. They are supposed to be refuting what is taught in well-established universities around the world. These universities do not teach that compound and complex organs such as the eye came into existence through a single mutation, or even tens or hundreds of mutations. As a matter of fact, such people are ignorant of the basics of the theory of evolution, so they present a distorted version of the theory, and respond to it based on their erroneous understanding. This is nauseating for whoever reads their books, and it makes them conclude that they are completely defeated in the face of evolution as well as the atheist movement they attempt to confront by using their argument of using single-burst creationism that excludes evolution. This theory contradicts not only biology, historical geology, and archeology, but also the literal meaning of religious scriptures. This will be clarified when we discuss religious scriptures, like the Quran, which clearly indicate that creation occurred in many stages and through evolution..."

-Ahmed AlHasan
Chapter 1, "The Atheism Delusion"


We understand from the narrations of the household and family of The Prophet pbuhap about these beings called Nisnas, meaning human like in Arabic. Nowadays we know from Science about Neanderthals and Homo Erectus, and other human like beigns which have been confirmed by the fossil records, which preceded Homo Sapines. Imam Muhammad al-Baqir pbuh and Imam Ali pbuh knew and talked about it over 1000 years ago.

The Household of Prophet Muhammad pbuhap talked about the Nisnas (human like beings) before Adam:

From book "Atheism Delusion" by Ahmed al-Hasan a.s. - Pages 132 and 133:

"The religious texts not only agree with biology and modern science, but they have also mentioned concious life forms, some of which are known today through fossils, meaning the human-like beings like some type of Homo Erectus, Homo Sapiens and the Neanderthal. These texts have stated that human like beings existed before humans, and some of them were rational, concious beings, but less so than humans.

(Muhammad ibn Ali al-Baqir pbuh said: Since the creation of the earth, God Almighty has created seven peoples who are not descendants of Adam. He created them from the soil of the earth and caused them to inhabit it, one after the other, each with his own people. Then, God Almighty created the father of this mankind, and He created his offspring from him." Al Sadooq 1982, 359. Arabic source, translated. Also Al-Ayashi 1991, vol. 2, 238.)

This religious account and others indicate that concious, intelligent life forms have evolved on this earth. In this account, there are seven generations that are concious and intelligent, whose souls are different than Adam, who are not from his children, and who preceded him pbuh on this earth.

(The Prince of the Believers, Ali pbuh said: "God Almighty wanted to create a creation with His own hands after 7,000 years of Jinn and Nisnas existing on earth. He wanted to create Adam... I want to create a creature with My hands, and I want to make from his offspring prophets, messengers, righteous servants, and guided Imams, and make them vicegerents among My creation on My earth, who command them against disobeying Me, warn them of My torment, guide them to My obedience, and guide them to the path toward Me. I shall make them Proofs of Mine upon the others, and I will exterminate the Nisnas on My earth and cleanse it of them." Al-Qumi 1983, vol 1, 36. Arabic source, translated.)

This religious account clearly says that before Adam pbuh there were human-like beings on the earth. It is clear that the seven thousand years are not units of measurement familiar to us today. We can imagine different time units of measurement that are not familiar to us, because they are in different dimensions outside of the universe which we live."

This is the link for the book "Atheism Delusion": book atheism delusion V01
 

Ya Ali

Member
From a part of an interview of Ahmed al-Hasan a.s. from December 2015 on topic of his book:

(Atteen Wal Zaitoun - Host: Perhaps the title of the book points to this, as the book is comprised of two parts: a part that refutes, i.e. “the Atheism delusion” and a part that proves, i.e. “the signs of God in the universe”. The question is, does the rejection you were met with (especially in the Islamic world) account for how much attention you gave to proving the scientific theories first (especially the theory of evolution), or are there different reasons? Especially that the interpretations of some verses in the book become very clear in the light of scientific theories. Here, I’d like to mention the interpretation of verses. Some who try to criticize the book claim these interpretations cannot be used when discussing Atheists. How do you respond to that?

Ahmed Al Hasan: May Allah welcome you. The theory of evolution, there are still some who reject it for religious reasons and no other reasons. I mentioned some evidence for evolution in the book because I believe all people deserve to know the truth as it is, people who still reject it are wrong and they should read more because now evolution is an undoubtable scientific fact, the genetic evidence for it is clear, it is similar to videos or tapes that prove that humans and other beings have common ancestors, whether primates or other beings as you know genetics of beings carry an identical image of that being that matches it 100%. When matching the images of certain creatures we find it to be the ancestor of both chimpanzees and humans. What research and academia has reached is exactly what was reached when astronauts took pictures of the earth revolving from space to resolve once and for all the debate of whether the earth revolves around the sun, nevertheless some people refuse to believe it despite these pictures, e.g. Wahhabi clerics Ibn Uthaimeen for example said the sun revolves around the earth and day and night is caused by the sun revolving around the earth. Ibn Baz said the same, whoever disbelieves in evolution is no better than Wahhabi clerics. I hope that whoever imagines evolution to be untrue to read more. It is not embarrassing to correct your beliefs, what is embarrassing and shameful is to reject science and knowledge and remain in ignorance. Evolution is a certain matter that happened in the past and still happens, it is enough that all universities and research centres consider evolution to be the only explanation for diversity of life forms on earth. As for the verses, you did not mention them, maybe you mean God's saying in Surat Nuh: “He created you in stages.” [71 : Nuh : 14]. And other verses I mentioned in the book; “He caused you to grow from the earth.” [71 : Nuh : 17]. They are clear, God created you in stages, he caused you to grow from the earth. God is talking about the creation of man obviously the verse is saying you are a seed in this earth which grew and produced. We can say this seed is the genes which grew and produced our bodies, I believe there are reasonable people who can benefit from them to know about the truth of religion, but if Atheists reject this interpretation of these clear verses, to me, this matter is up to them. I Don’t force them to accept it. Mic is yours.)

The Truth that is in this Book (Pages 285-286):
(The truth in this book is that the human soul was created from the raised wet clay and the breathing of the spirit that were connected to a material body that evolved on this earth. The first human soul was created in the first heaven and was composed of the wet clay that was raised to it, as well as the breathing of the spirit into it. Thus, the creation of Adam pbuh occurred in the first heaven. If non-believers cannot understand or rationalize the first heaven, we can assume that, according to the multiple universe theory, it exists in a universe parallel to our universe that we now live in. From there, this soul was returned to this material universe we are in through its connection to a body - when it is in the womb - and it is a body like our current bodies. It is no different from us. Thus, the first Man, Adam pbuh, was formed on this earth. The case of Eve pbuh is similar to that of Adam. Mankind reproduced and populated the earth for the first time in a noteworthy, recorded and preserved manner in Summer.
If you cannot understand the connection of the souls that is in a parallel world to the body that is in this world, you can consider it to be like the hypothetical connection between parallel universes and the transfer of a particle or wave between universes.* [*For those who are not familiar with the multiple universe theory, a brief explanation will be offered in this book, InshaAllah]
With respect to the soul of Eve, it was derived from the soul of Adam pbuh:
{O mankind, fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women. And fear Allah, through whom you ask one another, and the kinship. Indeed Allah is ever an Observer over you} [Quran 4:1]
The Almighty said: {It is He who created you from one soul and created from it its mate that he might live with her. And when he covers her, she carries a light burden and continues therein. And when it becomes heavy, they both invoke Allah, their Lord, "If You should give us a good, we will surely be among the grateful."} Quran 7:189)

The Society of Adam (page 135-136):
(According the the religious scripture, Adam is a prophet. Therefore, if the soul of Adam pbuh connected to a biological body that was among a group lower than it in spiritual advancement, how did he live with them? How did he behave with them? Where did this group go?

The Answer:
It must be known that in order for the soul of Adam to connect to a body, the body must be prepared to receive it. Consequently, the brain must be suitable in size and quality. The size of the brain must be appropriately sufficient for thinking, consciousness and reasoning. This means that the brain would have an avarage size of about 1400 ml, similar to our brains.
That is also the case with respect to quality. Thus, the composition, cells an cortex of a brain this size must have also evolved appropriately.
If this was the case for the group to which Adam phuh was born, then it is certainly an intellectual group capable of consciousness and even mutual understanding. Therefore, as a prophet, Adam pbuh could have been dispatched to a people of God's creation after they came to have the capacity to know God at the level of the message with which Adam was dispatched. Thus, the soul of Adam pbuh was lowered and connected to a body, and he called them to the worship of God Almighty. Afterwards, Adam, his wife, and those who believed and supported them, isolated themselves from the rest of the people, just as Abraham pbuh did when he and his wife isolated themselves and emigrated away from their people, after he had called them to God and was rejected by them. However, God wished for Adam pbuh, his progeny, and his supporters to overcome that group, and for that group to become extinct, even if the extinction happened after a period of time...)
book atheism delusion V01
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A dog is an evolutionist. What else would they be, creationists? Intelligent designists? Evolutionary understanding was stated by saint Francis. Evolutionary understanding is fundemental to pre literate societies. Evolution "all life is singularly interconnected" is the oldest of human understanding. Darwin just rediscovered what was forgotten is all. So this debate is a modern anglo-european cultural issue. Books make people stupid apparently!!! Stating the obvious as meaningful isn't science.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
The Answer:
It must be known that in order for the soul of Adam to connect to a body, the body must be prepared to receive it. Consequently, the brain must be suitable in size and quality. The size of the brain must be appropriately sufficient for thinking, consciousness and reasoning. This means that the brain would have an avarage size of about 1400 ml, similar to our brains.
That is also the case with respect to quality. Thus, the composition, cells an cortex of a brain this size must have also evolved appropriately.
I am no expert in biology, but although the size of brain is factor in human evolution, the size of today's human brain is about the same as that of 6000 years ago (the supposed estimated date of Adam's creation) or that of 30,000 years ago in Europe, when Homo sapiens sapiens (modern human) continued to thrive when the Neanderthal died out around this time.

The size of skulls are indicator of the size of brain that the skull housed it. And there are no difference between today's skull and that of 30,000 years ago.

I know that you are not a Christian or Jew, Ali, so I am assuming that you haven't read the the Jewish or Christian bible. But the Old Testament or the Tanakh, do provide years and age to generations or reigns, where one might calculate the sum of years to get a rough estimate of timeline, from the Adam to the Fall of Jerusalem in 587 BCE.

I know that most Muslims would dismiss the Bible, and that the Qur'an provide no dates whatsoever, but you can't really be considered a scholar of Abrahamic religions, if you have not read both or most Abrahamic scriptures.

Anyway, I don't view those years, especially in Genesis and Exodus to historical or factual, but they do provide insight on how people think back in the Bronze Age, and what believers think about their scriptures today.

According to the Masoretic Text, which is the basis for most modern western English translations, the timeline would put creation of Adam to around nearly 6000 to 5700 years ago (or 4000 to 3700 BCE) and the Flood to around 4300 to 4100 years ago (2300 to 4100 BCE).

So my point is that the brain size of humans 6000 years ago, are no different to brain size that of 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 or even 50,000 years ago.

So your point that Adam's brain was better better than humans before him, is merely baseless speculation. You don't even have Adam's skull or brain to compare with any real human of any age.

The Qur'an is not science book, nor is the Tanakh or the Bible. And your interpretations of the Qur'an are not "scientific".
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member

Abrahamic religions agree that Adam and Eve were the first creations on Earth, but Science today has proven with highest precision that Evolution is truth and a fact, so it is very easy for scientific atheists do disprove this theory, that Adam was the first man on Earth. So we have the very important question which is did religious scholars misinterpret the religious scriptures? Ahmed al-Hasan a.s. in the book "Atheism Delusion" has explained that Evolution disproves the belief of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim Scholars and their followers that man suddenly appears.

"Is Creationism (Single or Multiple Bursts) Acceptable, Based on the Scientific Method?

In reality, whoever has a basic scientific background in evolution and how it actually works; or has read a book by any evolution scientist and their refutation of the arguments against evolution; or has even just read the book that Darwin wrote in the 19th century, which included his response to many arguments; and then reads the books written by those who call themselves religious authorities and scholars, will find that they address issues they know nothing about. They do not even understand evolution, or how it occurs according to evolution scientists. Instead, they have understood evolution in a backward way, and then proceeded to argue in an extremely superficial and simplistic manner based on that backward understanding. We also find them repeating Darwin's original arguments—that he had already presented and refuted in his book—similar to how they present superficial arguments in an attempt to refute the accuracy of the principles and methods of historical geology used to determine the age of the older rock layers, even though the accuracy of these methods is undeniable. They argue against the theory of evolution, asking why the circumcision of children is not inherited, and why an ape that is trained to walk does not pass the walking trait down to its offspring. When average people read these arguments, people who do not know what evolution is—they might fall for them. But they are simplistic arguments to those who understand the theory of evolution and how it works. The traits that are inherited by the next generation are those written in the genetic plan of the organism. They are not acquired traits, like the walking of a trained ape or the circumcision of a child. or the circumcision of a child. This is self-evident to evolutionary biologists.

On the other hand, some people who challenge the theory of evolution assume that evolutionary biology states that compound and complex organs such as the eye came into existence through a single mutation. Not even Darwin says that, let alone modern scientists. They are supposed to be refuting what is taught in well-established universities around the world. These universities do not teach that compound and complex organs such as the eye came into existence through a single mutation, or even tens or hundreds of mutations. As a matter of fact, such people are ignorant of the basics of the theory of evolution, so they present a distorted version of the theory, and respond to it based on their erroneous understanding. This is nauseating for whoever reads their books, and it makes them conclude that they are completely defeated in the face of evolution as well as the atheist movement they attempt to confront by using their argument of using single-burst creationism that excludes evolution. This theory contradicts not only biology, historical geology, and archeology, but also the literal meaning of religious scriptures. This will be clarified when we discuss religious scriptures, like the Quran, which clearly indicate that creation occurred in many stages and through evolution..."

-Ahmed AlHasan
Chapter 1, "The Atheism Delusion"


We understand from the narrations of the household and family of The Prophet pbuhap about these beings called Nisnas, meaning human like in Arabic. Nowadays we know from Science about Neanderthals and Homo Erectus, and other human like beigns which have been confirmed by the fossil records, which preceded Homo Sapines. Imam Muhammad al-Baqir pbuh and Imam Ali pbuh knew and talked about it over 1000 years ago.

The Household of Prophet Muhammad pbuhap talked about the Nisnas (human like beings) before Adam:

From book "Atheism Delusion" by Ahmed al-Hasan a.s. - Pages 132 and 133:

"The religious texts not only agree with biology and modern science, but they have also mentioned concious life forms, some of which are known today through fossils, meaning the human-like beings like some type of Homo Erectus, Homo Sapiens and the Neanderthal. These texts have stated that human like beings existed before humans, and some of them were rational, concious beings, but less so than humans.

(Muhammad ibn Ali al-Baqir pbuh said: Since the creation of the earth, God Almighty has created seven peoples who are not descendants of Adam. He created them from the soil of the earth and caused them to inhabit it, one after the other, each with his own people. Then, God Almighty created the father of this mankind, and He created his offspring from him." Al Sadooq 1982, 359. Arabic source, translated. Also Al-Ayashi 1991, vol. 2, 238.)

This religious account and others indicate that concious, intelligent life forms have evolved on this earth. In this account, there are seven generations that are concious and intelligent, whose souls are different than Adam, who are not from his children, and who preceded him pbuh on this earth.

(The Prince of the Believers, Ali pbuh said: "God Almighty wanted to create a creation with His own hands after 7,000 years of Jinn and Nisnas existing on earth. He wanted to create Adam... I want to create a creature with My hands, and I want to make from his offspring prophets, messengers, righteous servants, and guided Imams, and make them vicegerents among My creation on My earth, who command them against disobeying Me, warn them of My torment, guide them to My obedience, and guide them to the path toward Me. I shall make them Proofs of Mine upon the others, and I will exterminate the Nisnas on My earth and cleanse it of them." Al-Qumi 1983, vol 1, 36. Arabic source, translated.)

This religious account clearly says that before Adam pbuh there were human-like beings on the earth. It is clear that the seven thousand years are not units of measurement familiar to us today. We can imagine different time units of measurement that are not familiar to us, because they are in different dimensions outside of the universe which we live."

This is the link for the book "Atheism Delusion": book atheism delusion V01


Assuming an asserted conclusion;: Science today has proven with highest precision that Evolution is truth

The Bible would suggest there was no death before the fall, hence the theistic evolution conclusion doesn't fit well except in the square peg in round hole sense. Additionally man and animals we claimed to be made from dust, square peg round hole, theistic evolution is.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm Baha'i and I believe in God and evolution.
To me the creation story of Adam is a metaphor and a vicarious story to illustrate that man suffers spiritual death after the knowledge of God has reached him and he turns away from it.

I think being created from dust is just a loose way of saying we are carbon based life forms made of flimsy material so we shouldn't be excessively attached to the body which is transient
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I think aspects of the story might be poetic... like making the sea monsters while the Canaanite God fought sea monsters to create the world... but... I would say rooted in actual creation events in real history

A few and an incomplete list of important issues
God was at the begining
God prepared the world for man
Man is made in God's image
The world was declared GOOD 7 times at least
Then when marriage was made the world was VERY GOOD
so there is something special about marriage
 
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