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Featured The corona and end time plagues

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    Just because Jesus referred to himself in the third person that does not mean he was not referring to himself.

    All the scriptures point to the fact that Jesus was the one that was crowned as king in heaven.

    Earlier you pointed to the prophecy in Daniel 7 about the "son of man" being crowned in heaven as king of God's kingdom government.

    Who else could the son of man be? Who else did God crown beside Jesus Christ? There are others mind you. But to whom did he say:

    (Psalm 2:6-9) 6 Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain.” 7 Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: “You are my son; Today I have become your father. 8 Ask of me, and I will give nations as your inheritance And the ends of the earth as your possession. 9 You will break them with an iron scepter, And you will smash them like a piece of pottery.”

    Now use insight. The same one who is crowed in heaven in Daniel 7 is the same one here that receives the ends of the earth as his inheritance, they are his possession by God's decree to his son. Jesus is the son of God here referred to.

    In Revelation 14:14 we are told:

    "Then I saw, and look! a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was someone like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand."

    Who is the one with the golden crown?

    Stephen saw him in vision as he was about to be stoned to death for his goodness by the wicked religious leaders of the Jews. Notice who he says Jesus is:

    (Acts 7:54-56)  Well, at hearing these things, they were infuriated in their hearts and began to grind their teeth at him. 55 But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand, 56 and he said: “Look! I see the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.”

    The Bible is very very very clear about who the son of man is.

    The Bible says that Jesus is the one standing on God's right hand. It also says that "the son of man" is the one standing at God's right hand.

    Just as Bible prophecy foretells of Jesus:

    (Psalm 110:1-4) . . .Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” 2 Jehovah will extend the scepter of your power out of Zion, saying: “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.” 3 Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force. In splendid holiness, from the womb of the dawn, You have your company of young men just like dewdrops. 4 Jehovah has sworn an oath, and he will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever In the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek!”
     
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  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But the fact is that He didn't. ;)
     
  3. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    Well another Bible scripture directly tells us Jesus is the son of man returned to heaven at God's right hand. I wrote it in a previous post but will repost it here for your enlightenment:

    (Acts 7:54-56) 54 Well, at hearing these things, they were infuriated in their hearts and began to grind their teeth at him. 55 But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand, 56 and he said: “Look! I see the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.”

    All the scriptures of the son of man refer to the Christ. Stephen was given this vision right before he was stoned to death a little time after Jesus returned to heaven.

    He was given verification that Jesus Christ was now standing at God's right hand. And Stephen was inspired by God to call Jesus Christ the "son of man standing at God's right hand."

    The Bible is very very very clear about who the "son of man" is. It leaves not even a shadow of a doubt that it is Jesus Christ.
     
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  4. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    (Revelation 19:10) . . .For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”

    I want to share this sacred secret with you and others who may read. All inspired prophecy in the Bible is in relation to Jesus Christ.
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Show me any other verses where Jesus said He would return to earth.

    Fine, Jesus rules forever on a heavenly throne, but you want Jesus to also rule on earth, but that was never God's plan.

    Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

    “The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

    Jesus Christ was the Messiah, but He was not the Messiah of the Messianic Age, so Jesus was not ever slated to return to earth and rule on an earthly throne.

    John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

    John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

    These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”..
    The Bible mentions son of man many times, not all of which refer to Jesus.

    The Hebrew expression "son of man" (בן–אדם i.e. ben-'adam) appears one hundred and seven times in the Hebrew Bible. This is the most common Hebrew construction for the singular, appearing 93 times in the Book of Ezekiel alone and 14 times elsewhere.

    Son of man (Judaism) - Wikipedia
    That's right, Jesus sits on the right hand of God in heaven, and there He will remain. Jesus had no plans to come back to earth and that is why He said His work was finished here.
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not disagree that Jesus was the Son of man who is standing at God's right hand, as it is in accordance with my beliefs. What I disagree with is that Jesus was the Son of man who would return in the clouds.

    Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

    I believe that the spirit Jesus ascended into heaven in the clouds (Acts 1:9). Baha’u’llah, one like a son of man, descended from the clouds of heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. These verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom was in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom was on earth.

    John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    You are preaching to the choir. I already believe that because Baha'u'llah referred to Jesus as the Son of Man.

    “Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence 86 exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

    We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

    Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86
     
    #27 Trailblazer, Oct 31, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
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  8. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    Jesus is the only spirit in heaven that is referred to as the son of man. He is the only spirit that has the right to that claim. As he is the only spirit that came to earth and was born as a son of man. No other angel in heaven did that.

    I am being patient here because I realize that I'm dealing with perhaps years of understanding something different. And perhaps this alone will not be sufficient to correct the thinking. I feel it is very important though to understand Jesus' role in the outworking of God's purpose. Because it is ONLY by recognizing Jesus Christ as God's son, and as come as a son of man and who has returned to heaven and has been given all authority in heaven and earth and the name that is above all names, to whom every knee should bend, can you find everlasting life.

    I understand and respect what you are saying. It is very clear the scriptures pertaining to the son of man in heaven is and can only be Jesus Christ. No other angel in heaven can claim that title. Not until the elect chosen and faithful 144,000 are in heaven ruling with the Christ.

    In Daniel 7 after we are shown Jesus' coronation as king of God's kingdom in heaven, we are told that others are also crowned to rule with him:

    (Daniel 7:18) . . .But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will possess the kingdom forever, yes, forever and ever.’

    These "holy ones" will reign with Jesus Christ, the son of man in kingdom glory in heaven:

    This is Jesus Christ talking:

    (Revelation 2:26) . . .And to the one who conquers and observes my deeds down to the end, I will give authority over the nations,

    (Revelation 3:21) . . .To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

    The throne that is given to the son of man in Daniel 7 is Jesus Christ's.

    The 144,000 anointed Christians who conquer to the end will be raised to heavenly spirit life and will rule with the "son of man" as kings and priests:

    (Revelation 5:10) . . .and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”


    Daniel 7 mentions Jesus, as the son of man is crowned king in heaven. Jesus in Revelation talks to the other "holy ones" referred to in Daniel 7 that will receive kingly power in heaven. So Jesus Christ, the son of man, and the 144,000 anointed Christian congregation, the "holy ones" will all rule as kings in heaven over the earth.
     
    #28 Eyes to See, Oct 31, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" does not mean it was Jesus who would fulfill all the Bible prophecies. Jesus fulfilled some of them, but not all of them.
     
  10. Shia Islam

    Shia Islam Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
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    Apart from the Christians, Muslims too believe in the end time plague, before the appearance of the Mahdi and Jesus Christ.

    However, throughout history, Humanity have been stricken by many plagues, and no date is given for the end time major events. So how do we know that Covid-19, is the end time plague?!
     
  11. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    All Bible prophecy is made pertaining to the Christ and fulfilled in the Christ and made yes by means of him:

    (2 Corinthians 1:20) . . .For no matter how many the promises of God are, they have become “yes” by means of him. . . .
     
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  12. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    The rest are to be fulfilled by him, and then the Bible says he will turn over after a period of time, everything to the Father. After everything has been made as Jesus knows the Father wants it.
    1 Corinthians chapter 15: (Berean Study Bible)
    24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
     
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  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am not saying that Jesus was not the Son of man, but the rest of what you say about the 144,000 anointed Christian congregation, the "holy ones" will all rule as kings in heaven over the earth has no basis in scripture. Logically speaking, it it was true, all the other Christians who are reading the same scripture would agree with you, but we all know that Christians all disagree on their beliefs, even though they are reading from the same Bible.
     
  14. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    Yes. It is there. I gave you some references to study.
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe it has already been turned over to the Father because I believe that Baha’u’llah was the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter promised by Jesus in John 14, 15 and 16:

    "Give ear unto that which the Dove of Eternity warbleth upon the twigs of the Divine Lote-Tree: O peoples of the earth! We sent forth him who was named John to baptize you with water, that your bodies might be cleansed for the appearance of the Messiah. He, in turn, purified you with the fire of love and the water of the spirit in anticipation of these Days whereon the All-Merciful hath purposed to cleanse you with the water of life at the hands of His loving providence. This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you.Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory." The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 63
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I saw no references to 144,000 anointed Christian congregation, the "holy ones" will all rule as kings in heaven over the earth.
     
  17. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    I gave you a start. I don’t mind going into more detail but remind me tomorrow. I’m hitting the sack now. You have a good night.
     
  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Okay, have a good night. :) I still have to work some more and eat dinner.
     
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  19. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    If I may say,,
    As for Christians to be taken up to heaven first..
    That's a false teaching of man's teachings and doctrines in the churches..

    There is no where that's written that Christians will be taken to heaven..

    When Jesus Christ returns to the earth.
    Jesus Christ will be establishing his kingdom here on earth.
    So no one is going anywhere...

    As Christians listen to much to their Pastors and Preachers teachings and not to the teachings of Jesus Christ...

    If Christians did listen to the teachings of Jesus Christ.
    Then Christians would have found that Jesus Christ will be establishing his kingdom here on Earth.
    So no one is going anywhere...but here on earth...
    This being a false teaching of Christians to say they will be taken to heaven.

    This is why Jesus Christ said in the book of Matthew 24:5--"For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ, and shall deceive many"

    Okay...so who else besides Christians professes to come in the name of Christ.
    Therefore you have many Christians coming in the name of Christ to deceive many people by their false teachings..

    There are two groups of Christians in the world..
    One Christian that goes by man's teachings and doctrines in the churches.

    And the other Christians who only follows the teachings of Jesus Christ...

    So what you have is..
    The good and bad fruit.

    So why do you suppose that God's Judgement is starting at his house.

    1 Peter 4:17--"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God"

    So what's happening in the Christian churches that God's Judgement is starting there????

    Could it be because of falsehoods and fables that the false Christians are being taught in the churches..
    And not the teachings of Jesus Christ ????
     
    #39 Faithofchristian, Nov 1, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
  20. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

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    Because you haven't carefully read this passage.

    Revelation 13:15 says that the Beast (we are assuming the Beast is COVID since those who worship it also fear it, and say "What is like unto (COVID)? What can make war against it?" Remember in the Old Testament thinking to be afraid of something is to worship it) has the authority to kill those who do not worship it. Who are nor afraid of it. Who say it is a false idol . Not real. I've got links to websites showing that around 6% of COVID cases according to the CDC itself are actual COVID, while the rest are primarily caused by something else. And of those, roughly a majority are those who are 70 or above. This disease isn't one we should fear, but saying that is useless. Of those that died who weren't 70, one of those had just attended a church after regulations loosened. A real church, not a social distancing thing. Another was a guy who said online that this thing isn't real. Another was a bishop who refused to go along with this stuff. Being a Christian won't keep you from getting it, because it's precisely said that any who don't worship the Beast will die, one way or another.

    The very next verse talks about how the Beast will demand everyone have a Mark, or they cannot buy or sell. Masks are the diet version of this, economic control based on a worn garb. The full version is having something that you cannot take off, where you cannot buy or sell without. This is meant to starve to death those who do not go along with the program. And Christians are not immune to this either.

    What is the Mark of the Beast? – Revelation 13:16-18

    We had a new church that my dad was going to move to. It was on local road 666. I was creeped out enough that although the place had all the trappings of success, I asked him not to go there. Our family must be united or it will fall. Had he gone there, I probably would not have gone with him. Likewise, while I am begrudgingly okay with him wearing a mask, I'm thinking if this gets worse than masks, I will tell him that if he does this, then I will leave. Divided we fall.

    It's like that. The Number of the Beast is about saving one's own skin. Being dazzled by success or worried for fear, the result is the same. This is the number of the material "God". But this "God" is not God. Whether your body dies or not, that doesn't matter. In fact, if your body dies, this is a mercy. Because the rest of the people will have to put up with months or maybe even years (if no one calls an end to this).
     
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