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Featured The Copper Scroll

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Redemptionsong, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    There appears to be a wave of interest generated by the discovery of a copper scroll in Qumran, which, according to Jim Barfield (see You Tube videos), provides information on the whereabouts of a huge quantity of silver and gold vessels/furniture once associated with the temple in Jerusalem.

    The real interest in this discovery is not so much the value of the treasure (worth billions, apparently) as the implications for a new temple in Jerusalem.

    Would the unearthing of these vessels increase the likelihood of a new temple being built? How far have plans for such a building progressed? Can any good come from rebuilding the temple? Is it God's will that the temple should be rebuilt?

    Your thoughts.
     
    #1 Redemptionsong, Mar 4, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  2. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Not just Jim Barfield, whoever he may be. This scroll was discovered and deciphered in the 1950s, so there is nothing really new here: Copper Scroll

    Barfield, however, seems to be some sort of crank: the insanity continues: jim barfield and the copper scroll project get another jpost article

    He is not an archaeologist, but a retired assistant fire marshal, from somewhere in the American Midwest, apparently. I would take what he says about this scroll with a pinch of salt.
     
    #2 exchemist, Mar 4, 2021
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  3. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    Is there? This was discovered decades ago. I'm not saying it's not a cool find, I'm just wondering whether there really is a new wave of interest and if so, why would that be?
    To this day there are disagreements whether the scroll is talking about a real cache or is fictitious or blowing things out of proportion. In any case, no such treasure has been found. Yet, whatever the find may be if ever found, I doubt it would spark heavy - if any - interest in the Temple.

    As for plans for the next Temple, you may want to check this out: About us - Temple Institute
     
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  4. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to Jim Barfield, he was the first to state that his qualifications, or lack of formal qualifications, would cast doubts over his findings. He was not claiming to have discovered the scrolls, but to have deciphered the writings in a very literalist manner, which led him to make some extraordinary findings at the Qumran site.

    The fact that some authorities in Israel are now taking notice of this should tell us that his findings have not yet been dismissed.

    There are, without doubt, a number of competing interest groups in these archaeological enquiries, some of which have the power to cloud an honest investigation. It's even more important, given these interests, that a honest assessment should be based on the quality of the evidence.
     
  5. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    That's an interesting article. The preparations are much further on that I had imagined, although the article gives little clue as to the support that such an undertaking would receive from the general populace of Israel. There is mention of the belief held by some that the Temple cannot be rebuilt until the appearance of the Messiah...but that cannot but lead to further differences of opinion!

    It's worth watching the three episodes on the scroll at You Tube.[InGrace with Jim Scuddrer/Shelley Neese 'The Copper Scroll Project'. Sept 2019. 3 parts]
     
  6. capumetu

    capumetu Active Member

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    Keep in mind that Jehovah destroyed the temple, taking the Kingdom from them and giving it to a new nation. It is my opinion that Jehovah will not allow a new temple to be built, since Christians have always had their spiritual temple.
     
  7. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Well-Known Member
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    Third temple?...

    [​IMG]

    We are now officially in the end times!
     
  8. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    What findings are these, that authorities in Israel are taking an interest in? Has anything been published on them? Is there a link to something we can read?

    Or is it just YouTube videos?
     
    #8 exchemist, Mar 4, 2021
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  9. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
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    Why further? It's an old halachic/hashkafic disagreement.
     
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  10. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I had to look hashkafic up <i>Hashkafa</i>
     
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  11. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Have you watched the videos? They make reference to people in positions of authority with regard to antiquities in Israel.

    The woman interviewed, Shelley Neese, is the author of the book, 'The Copper Scroll Project'. She appears to have links to the Museum of the Bible, in Washington D.C.
     
  12. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    No I don't do YouTube videos, as a rule. YouTube is full of junk and videos take far too long to watch.

    If this guy is serious, he will have published his findings. I don't actually believe the Israelis authorities will get too impressed by YouTube videos, either. They will want to read published research, too.

    Shelley Neese is a journalist.
     
  13. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that the temple of Christ is spiritual [Revelation 21:22]. Does this preclude the possibility that a temple will be rebuilt to satisfy those Jews who see a rebuilding as essential for obedience to the Torah?

    Tell me, what do you think the 'abomination of desolation' [Matthew 24:15; Daniel 9:27; 11:31] refers to?
     
  14. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    It goes without saying that Jim Barfield has had to convince people with evidence. Whether he has made all his findings public, given the nature of the project, is unlikely. But , if you want to do the research yourself, then take a look at the paraphrase and comments by Hack and Carey: The Copper scroll: 3Q15.
     
  15. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    You mean this?: Hack & Carey: The Copper Scroll: 3Q15

    As can be seen from the references cited, this has nothing to do with what you say Barfield has found.
     
  16. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say he had unearthed the treasures. Barfield's claim is that the site measurements at Qumran fit with the measurements given in the scroll.

    Watch and see.
     
  17. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Of course he hasn't found the treasure - if there ever was any. I was referring to your claim that Barfield's "findings", as you called them, have attracted the attention of the authorities in Israel.

    Is that it, then? That some measurements at Qumran itself correspond with some dimensions given in the scroll?
     
    #17 exchemist, Mar 4, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  18. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Well, to convince authorities to excavate for buried treasures, you have to do more than match measurements on the ground with measurements on paper. The next step for Barfield was to visit the site with equipment that could locate non-ferrous metals deep underground. They did this at one location, and had very positive readings from the equipment. Does this mean that they will be allowed to dig? No. As I understand, this was the point at which the project was placed on pause by the Israeli authorities.
     
  19. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Understandably. The authorities will want to be convinced that there is a real prospect of finding something of interest and they will have to keep in mind the potential disturbance and destruction caused by the digging.

    That's where a project based only on YouTube videos, and bypassing professional archaeology, may come to grief.
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it depends on, what is the purpose, why people want to do it. I think it is not necessary, because:

    Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?
    1 Corinthians 3:16

    Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he spoke of the temple of his body.
    John 2:19-21

    Jesus and his disciples are the temple of God.

    The God who made the world and all things in it, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, neither is he served by men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself gives to all life and breath, and all things.
    Acts 17:24-25
     
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