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The contributions of Religion to sciences

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
As a Jew, I have to disagree with you on this. During what's often called the "Golden Age of Islam", the religion did contribute much to mathematics especially, but also to some other matters as well. Unfortunately, that "golden age" has since passed, and modern Islam has more slipped into "political correctness" that is holding back innovative thought and subsequent actions.

The Judaism people also belong to the religion. Their contributions to science can never be denied. Am I right?
Regards
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Please elaborate your post.
Thanks and regards
In anthropology, religion is considered one of the "five basic institutions" that all societies have and have had as far back as we can go in human history. The other four are family, political, economic, and educational. There is an interrelationship between these five in all societies, so religion does play a role in each of them to varying degrees.

The Golden Age of Islam very much had an interrelationship with the development and manifestation of the educational systems in many countries, and Islam still plays a role in modern Islamic societies of course.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
In anthropology, religion is considered one of the "five basic institutions" that all societies have and have had as far back as we can go in human history. The other four are family, political, economic, and educational. There is an interrelationship between these five in all societies, so religion does play a role in each of them to varying degrees.

The Golden Age of Islam very much had an interrelationship with the development and manifestation of the educational systems in many countries, and Islam still plays a role in modern Islamic societies of course.

True.

But, I would like to point out, for paarsurrey's sake more than for yours, that the development of "Islamic" science come from educational institution, and not from religious institution (Islam).

So really, I am addressing this reply to paarsurrey, because I think you are already aware of this.

Islam, their Qur'an, their prophet (Muhammad) and their deity (Allah) have nothing to do with the "Islamic" science.

Though, in the west, science and education were being lost, or at least seriously downgraded, due to the Dark Ages, starting in the 2nd half of the 5th century CE, the eastern civilizations, including the Byzantine (or Eastern Roman) empire and the Sassanian (Persian) empire, didn't have this Dark Ages, therefore they didn't lose their science.

When the Muslim Arabs began their conquests in Syria, Persia and Egypt, they were taking lands where people already have science. Just because people in those lands converted, the science didn't originate with Islam. And it wasn't Islam (or the Qur'an) that contribute to science, but the Muslims who learn from the existing science that was already in place. People who already have, either Greek or Roman (or both), and Persian educations in scientific fields.

Sure, Muslim scientists did expand and made some good improvements to the existing science by the 9th century, but that's what call progress.

By conquering those territories belonging to the Byzantine and Persian empires, the Arabic-ethnic Muslims were able to reap the rewards of education that they lacked, education like in science and mathematics and engineering and architecture.

Architecture is another area that the Arabs of Muhammad's time, lacked. When the Arabs conquered Syrian and Egypt and Persia, they gained access to architecture that the Arabs had never possessed. All along the North African coast which the Arab army conquered, were Roman cities and towns, and therefore Roman commissioned building. When the Arabs crossed the Gibraltar into the Spanish peninsula, in 712, were more Roman cities, like Hispalis, now called Seville.

Muslims of today, tends to overlook that science from the Golden Age of Islam didn't just appear out of nowhere. The Arabs took whatever science that was already out there, from the people they had conquered and converted. They owed their science to the Greek, Roman and Persian, more so than the Arabs.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
In anthropology, religion is considered one of the "five basic institutions" that all societies have and have had as far back as we can go in human history. The other four are family, political, economic, and educational. There is an interrelationship between these five in all societies, so religion does play a role in each of them to varying degrees.

The Golden Age of Islam very much had an interrelationship with the development and manifestation of the educational systems in many countries, and Islam still plays a role in modern Islamic societies of course.
Thanks and regards my brother in humanity.
 

StopS

Member
There's always an interconnection between a society and its religious base(s)

Sorry, I disagree. Completely.

I think it's rarely the case and when society has no gods and not even a word for a god this is definitely not the case. (see the Piraha and Everett)
 

StopS

Member
In other words one testifies that the Muslim rule was very liberal towards the Zoroastrians and exhorted them to use their faculties to their optimum level.
Regards

Sorry, I don't know what that means. What I was saying was regarding the claim that Islam contributed scientific advancement.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Judaism, Zoroasterians, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam etc are all religions (with all the denominations), they all have contributed towards development of science in different periods of human life the sum total of which is now that we see in our times. Why should one deny that?
Regards
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
The study of Gobeki Tepe reveals that religion was the impetus for the change from a hunter gather existence to the agricultural settlement existence...and hence to modern civilization...

 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Sorry, I disagree. Completely.

I think it's rarely the case and when society has no gods and not even a word for a god this is definitely not the case. (see the Piraha and Everett)
There has never been a society since recorded history that has been able to suppress religion. In the 20th century, the Marxist countries tried and failed.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
True.

But, I would like to point out, for paarsurrey's sake more than for yours, that the development of "Islamic" science come from educational institution, and not from religious institution (Islam)...

Again, one simply cannot divorce one from the other. During the Golden Age, Islam not only allowed but also encouraged education and quite a bit of freedom of thought relative to other areas of the world. Even though scientific and mathematical innovations didn't directly come out of Islam, the freedom to research and express one's self did.

Generally speaking, no religious group actually can directly be credited for scientific and mathematical innovations, but what religion can do is to encourage the allowance of freedom to encourage objective research and then report it without fear of suppression and criminalization.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Judaism, Zoroasterians, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam etc are all religions (with all the denominations), they all have contributed towards development of science in different periods of human life the sum total of which is now that we see in our times. Why should one deny that?
No one is denying that people who followed those religions, had contributed to the science.

The religions themselves (meaning, the scriptures and revelations, as well as the founders, prophets, disciples) did not at all contribute to mathematics and science and technology.

With Islam, NOTHING that Muhammad taught or what are within the contents of the Qur'an, contributed to science.

Science were contributed a couple centuries and more after Muhammad's death, like by al-Khwarizmi, al-Razi, Avicenna, Omar Khayyam, al-Zahrawi, al-Zarqali, ibn Ishaq al-Kindi, ibn al-Haytham, etc.

Science flourished in Islam because of these Muslims, not because of Islam itself, and they flourished, starting from the 9th century to the 13th century, which was the zenith of science among the Persians, Arabs and Moors. And they flourished because he foundation of science and technology had already existed in works of Greeks, Romans and Persians before Islam.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Generally speaking, no religious group actually can directly be credited for scientific and mathematical innovations, but what religion can do is to encourage the allowance of freedom to encourage objective research and then report it without fear of suppression and criminalization.
And I agreed.

My points are that credits should be given to Muslim scientists, mathematicians, physicians, astronomers, architects, engineers, inventors, etc, and not to Islam itself or the Qur'an. These people flourished centuries after Muhammad's death.

Similarly, there have been Christian mathematicians, scientists, engineers, artists and architects, musicians, etc, who contributed to the fields they were in, and they deserved the credits for achievements, not the churches, not the prophets or Jesus, and certainly not the bible.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
No one is denying that people who followed those religions, had contributed to the science.
The religions themselves (meaning, the scriptures and revelations, as well as the founders, prophets, disciples) did not at all contribute to mathematics and science and technology.
With Islam, NOTHING that Muhammad taught or what are within the contents of the Qur'an, contributed to science.
Science were contributed a couple centuries and more after Muhammad's death, like by al-Khwarizmi, al-Razi, Avicenna, Omar Khayyam, al-Zahrawi, al-Zarqali, ibn Ishaq al-Kindi, ibn al-Haytham, etc.
Science flourished in Islam because of these Muslims, not because of Islam itself, and they flourished, starting from the 9th century to the 13th century, which was the zenith of science among the Persians, Arabs and Moors. And they flourished because he foundation of science and technology had already existed in works of Greeks, Romans and Persians before Islam.
The topic of the thread is "The contributions of Religion to sciences", whatever religion one follows. Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism has no contribution to sciences.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Again, one simply cannot divorce one from the other. During the Golden Age, Islam not only allowed but also encouraged education and quite a bit of freedom of thought relative to other areas of the world. Even though scientific and mathematical innovations didn't directly come out of Islam, the freedom to research and express one's self did.

Generally speaking, no religious group actually can directly be credited for scientific and mathematical innovations, but what religion can do is to encourage the allowance of freedom to encourage objective research and then report it without fear of suppression and criminalization.
And that is the role religion should really provide.
I agree with you.
Regards
 

gnostic

The Lost One
The topic of the thread is "The contributions of Religion to sciences", whatever religion one follows. Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism has no contribution to sciences.
Sorry, paarsurrey, but I HAVE NEVER said that science = atheism or science = agnosticism. Not once did I ever equate either agnosticism or atheism with science.

Agnosticism and atheism are and were NEVER science.

Both atheism and agnosticism are not religions, but they both deal with the issues of the existence of a deity or deities, thus "theism". Both are philosophical stances concerning religions and theology.

All religions (like Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, paganism) are not science, just as agnosticism and atheism are not science.

But there are people - believers, non-believers and agnostics - who may have education and job in science, but their education and work experiences have nothing to do with what they believe or don't believe.
 
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