The Contradiction of an All-powerful, All-knowing God

[Oeste]

No, it’s nothing like another argument for abortion, since an all-knowing god must know before conception, in fact he must know everything even before the creation.

Actually It's everything like abortion.

Some women know if they're going to have an abortion before they get pregnant, simply because they don't want the pregnancy. Some don't know until after they're pregnant.

And yes, still others know that if the baby will be born defective, perhaps greatly disfigured or flawed, whether they will continue to bring the baby to term or not.

You are making the same argument here, except you've substituted mankind for the baby.

Our all knowing God knew exactly how we would turn out, long before He created us which means He knew we would be defective. He decided to bring us to term anyways. How is that different from a mother who decides she wants to get pregnant and is set on bring the baby to term no matter what? Are you suggesting there must be something wrong with mom or dad if they're willing to raise a child they know won't be born with "all the bells and whistles"???

So yes, God knew we would be defective. God also knew how to cure our defect while protecting our God given "free will" ability. I really don't see the problem here. There is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially when you already know how to cure the baby.

This is rather funny. So you think God loves even the greatest sinners and the greatest genocidal maniacs, he loves people who he knows will have to go to hell afterwards, and people who hate him and try to destroy him. He loves Satan Worshipers.

Yes, so when Hitler and Pol Pot were born God loved them. When they did chores around the house or helped dad with his work He loved that too. When they said an encouraging word to a distressed neighbor or consoled someone after a funeral He still loved that too.

But when they decided to fill their hearts with hate, and sought to advance their station at the expense and lives of others, no....I don't see God "loving" that.

Again, I see no problem here.

So his incredible logic is that if he determines someone is destined to be the very worst, he still gives them the gift of life, still allows them to take away life from many others, then puts them in hell at the end.

This was addressed way back in Genesis 18:

He said, “Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it.” 32 Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.”​

God was willing to let let Sodom live for the sake of ten, so I'm at a loss as to why anyone would believe He wouldn't let us live for the sake of those willing to follow Him. There are billions of Christians in the world today, made righteous through their faith in Christ:

"What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written,

“That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.” Romans 3:3-4​

Also see Romans 3:20-22.

3:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (which is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed – 3:22 namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction,...​

Is he a bit retarded?

If you were persuaded by posts that God is ignorant it might appear that way, but I am not of that persuasion.

 

[Nakosis]

We only have humans around here? Are you sure about that? What evidence do you have?

Um, a lack of any opposing evidence.

I went shopping for a God? Didn't have to, I think I always knew, I just didn't know how or why so if it wasn't something I could explain it didn't matter to me whether it really did exist or not.

Yes, I know the subco... I mean God works in mysterious ways.

God lives up to my expectations? Not even close. My expectations would be that God would provide a safe learning environment for His children to learn. There is nothing safe about a primitive society with serial killers, molesters, sexual deviants, thieves, liars, selfish people, and control freaks.

You listed your expectations in a previous posts. Reality, however, you can't do much about. You're going to have to compromise a bit if you're going to try to justify reality according to your God.

People can't just create the God they want. They tried but nature interfered so they had to modify their ideas and add in an angry element to God.

Well actually I suppose you're right, most folks can't. Not from scratch like that. That's why they need someone else to create at least an initial concept for them to work from.

I'm happy with what I got? I'm not happy about it. The strong prey on the weak. The smart prey on the uneducated. The selfish prey upon the gullible. The universe is the gladiator pit.

If you're not happy with the God you got there's lots to choose from. The best way IMO is to create your own, but there are plenty of premade Gods to choose from as well.

Subconscious is not the same for everyone? You're talking about consciousness, the mind, not subconcious.

Actually the "mind" i.e. the central nervous system. I assume it's obvious your CNS is not the same as mine otherwise we'd both be thinking the same thoughts.

Folks tend to find what they are looking for? Do they? Or do they end up accepting the closest thing they can find?

Sometimes, especially with a premade God. Still usually folks modify that to something they can feel comfortable with. Look at all the variations of God Christians managed to come up with.

Looking for truth can be devastating to one's sense of self? Sometimes you have to tear down something to build it up correctly. Humans have inflated ego's when they've never been anywhere in the universe and haven't experienced even a fraction of it.

Yes, I agree with you there.

Scientology has different ideas? They do. One of the good things about the Urantia Book is that no one has tried to make it into a religion, yet. Hopefully no one ever will.

Yes, religion is kind of a pejorative word these days. However being considered a religion has tax benefits. If the UB fellowship grows they might want to consider it.

Apparently my soul knows the book? It doesn't know the book, it has access to the Akashic Record but access is not given just because the human mind wants to know something.

You don't trust your soul? Cool, maybe we're making progress here.

I don't realize how insignificant my concious awareness is? I do understand. It's very immature compared to what it will be.

Maybe, I suspect there is a good chance that human consciousness will expand if we don't destroy our species first.

You suggest that I start doing some research on the subconscious mind? I don't have to. Do you ever go back to first grade and sit in to freshen up?

Yeah, they didn't really teach anything about consciousness in the first grade. Maybe the school you went to was different. High School, Junior High perhaps. Psychology class, that's were I first started learning about how easily the conscious mind can be fooled.

It's possible that the universe is really a hologram? Ever read up on the double slit experiment?

Can you prove what we see is not a hologram? A three dimensional image suitably illuminated by a light source.

 

[Super Universe]

The topic was mass energy to which you replied "Space is time? There was no scientific principle for space being time. Even today that is an advanced concept that scientists have trouble with.". What has space time to do with the topic. You were either confusing or confused... Which?

Im not the one spouting the claimed thoughts of god, which incidentally totally agree with your own thoughts.

And now we have ad hom, methinks the the angry one is you. Btw why do you keep associating atheism with christmas?

They were christian, and its not up to you to decide who is and who isn't a good christian

The story was relevant because you accused me of anger, i put your ignorance in context. Therefore very relevant

So now you are blaming me because you cant debate a subject? I smell projection.

Nope im discussing it, sorry if you don't like fact.

Why are you so hung up on philosophy, you can't understand a topic so you scream for philosophy.

The topic was E=MC2? It was, then it wasn't. Your aunt was not the topic either, until it was.

Your not the one spouting the claimed thoughts of God? Of course not. How could you do that?

You think the angry one is me? My aunt has all her arms.

Why do I keep associating atheism with Christmas? It's easier than detailing all the things atheists didn't get, love, hugs, a life, money, intelligence, and whatever else they thought they should get if God really existed.

It's not up to me to decide who is and who is not a good Christian? It's not up to you either.

Your aunt story is relevant because I accused you of being angry? So you're not really angry that christians blew off your aunt's arm?

You put my ignorance in context? So, to you, people who know that your aunt had her arm blown off by Christians are smart and people who don't know that are ignorant?

I'm blaming you? Why not, you're blaming me for something I didn't do?

You smell projection? Visited a psychiatrist have you? What did their office smell like?

You're discussing what Christians did to your aunt, not blaming? Spin.

Why am I so hung up on philosophy? Being hung up on philosophy is better than being hung up on my aunt's arm.

 

[Scott C.]

Therefore, if any god is all-knowing and all-powerful, none of us would be alive.

If we were all knowing, we would know why it's necessary for us to be alive, even though an all knowing and all powerful God knows what we will do before we do it. But we are not and we cannot fathom the purposes of an all knowing and all powerful God. But, we can fathom that which he chooses to reveal about himself in terms that mere mortals understand.

 

[Super Universe]

Um, a lack of any opposing evidence.



Yes, I know the subco... I mean God works in mysterious ways.



You listed your expectations in a previous posts. Reality, however, you can't do much about. You're going to have to compromise a bit if you're going to try to justify reality according to your God.



Well actually I suppose you're right, most folks can't. Not from scratch like that. That's why they need someone else to create at least an initial concept for them to work from.



If you're not happy with the God you got there's lots to choose from. The best way IMO is to create your own, but there are plenty of premade Gods to choose from as well.



Actually the "mind" i.e. the central nervous system. I assume it's obvious your CNS is not the same as mine otherwise we'd both be thinking the same thoughts.



Sometimes, especially with a premade God. Still usually folks modify that to something they can feel comfortable with. Look at all the variations of God Christians managed to come up with.



Yes, I agree with you there.



Yes, religion is kind of a pejorative word these days. However being considered a religion has tax benefits. If the UB fellowship grows they might want to consider it.



You don't trust your soul? Cool, maybe we're making progress here.



Maybe, I suspect there is a good chance that human consciousness will expand if we don't destroy our species first.



Yeah, they didn't really teach anything about consciousness in the first grade. Maybe the school you went to was different. High School, Junior High perhaps. Psychology class, that's were I first started learning about how easily the conscious mind can be fooled.



Can you prove what we see is not a hologram? A three dimensional image suitably illuminated by a light source.

So, to you, there is a lack of evidence for aliens? Have you looked at the video's online of UFO's? Have you looked at the alien skeletons found in Peru? How many places in the universe have you visited?

You know that God works in mysterious ways? You're only scratching the surface. It's way, way, way more mysterious than you can imagine.

I can't do much about reality? Jesus said, something to the effect of, if we knew who we were we could look at a mountain and tell it to move and it would move.

You assume my CNS is not the same as yours? The brain has to be able to receive certain "wavelengths" (that is not the right word on purpose) in order to have visions or the ability to see things. There are people who can do things that are far beyond what I can do.

Look at all the variations of God that religions have come up with? People like to feel good about themselves. There is nothing wrong with that, but, too often the way they do it is to put down others. That is the reason there are so many different religions. People change a few things then think that they are superior and that they will get to heaven and others won't.

UB people should consider becoming a religion? I hope they don't. It will ruin it. Let the information stand on it's own and for people to look for it and judge it on their own.

I don't trust my soul? That would be like putting an infant in the pilot seat.

There is a good chance that human consciousness will expand? It's built into DNA. We're not going to have a choice in the matter. When the next genetic change happens, only God knows for sure.

If we destroy ourselves then we destroy ourselves. It's like stepping on an ant. It means nothing to the universe.

Can I prove what we see is not a hologram? There are certain rules that I follow. Only God should provide new information. I can give hints. You might look up the Double Slit Experiment. Also, Leonard Susskind has a theory about the possibility of the universe being a hologram.

 

[Nakosis]

So, to you, there is a lack of evidence for aliens? Have you looked at the video's online of UFO's? Have you looked at the alien skeletons found in Peru? How many places in the universe have you visited?

How do you know the aliens aren't primitive?

You know that God works in mysterious ways? You're only scratching the surface. It's way, way, way more mysterious than you can imagine.

That's what I've been trying to tell you. I just see God a little less supernatural than you.

I can't do much about reality? Jesus said, something to the effect of, if we knew who we were we could look at a mountain and tell it to move and it would move.

So why are you complaining? Go do something about it.

You assume my CNS is not the same as yours? The brain has to be able to receive certain "wavelengths" (that is not the right word on purpose) in order to have visions or the ability to see things. There are people who can do things that are far beyond what I can do.

Like creating your own God?

Look at all the variations of God that religions have come up with? People like to feel good about themselves. There is nothing wrong with that, but, too often the way they do it is to put down others. That is the reason there are so many different religions. People change a few things then think that they are superior and that they will get to heaven and others won't.

No reason to put folks down, but I do mock beliefs on occasion. I think it's good to see how silly our beliefs can be sometimes.

UB people should consider becoming a religion? I hope they don't. It will ruin it. Let the information stand on it's own and for people to look for it and judge it on their own.

What do you think is bad about "religion"?

I don't trust my soul? That would be like putting an infant in the pilot seat.

How was Wilfred able to communicate to these celestial beings? Not through conscious perception so I assume it was via his soul.

There is a good chance that human consciousness will expand? It's built into DNA. We're not going to have a choice in the matter. When the next genetic change happens, only God knows for sure.

Certainly not us right? Unless you have access to one of them evolved aliens perchance?

If we destroy ourselves then we destroy ourselves. It's like stepping on an ant. It means nothing to the universe.

Agreed.

Can I prove what we see is not a hologram? There are certain rules that I follow. Only God should provide new information. I can give hints. You might look up the Double Slit Experiment. Also, Leonard Susskind has a theory about the possibility of the universe being a hologram.

Well I guess I'm back to channelling then.

The double slit experiment I'm familiar with. Not sure how it applies in this case though.

I'll look up Leonard when I get a chance.

 

[Oeste]

God can read hearts ( we can't ) so yes God would know before a word in one's tongue because thoughts come before speech.

Excellent URAVIP2ME!

Then we can agree God is not fooled or left guessing because we have free choice. He is not ignorant. He knows what is in our hearts and our minds long before we do.

But that leaves us in a bit of a bind, doesn't it? Since He already knows our hearts and minds before we do, why does your Organization claim God ignorant due to man's “free will” since He obviously knows (and you admit) God knows our “free will” long before we do?

You might find Jesus' recorded words at Matthew 12:34-37 to be of interest.

Well lets take a look:

34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”​

You have certainly suggested a few verses worth remembering URAVIP2ME! I know I would have a hard time explaining to God why I thought He was a bit of an ignoramus on the day of judgment, but it's by the grace of God I do not.

Hopefully you're Organization will get some "new light" on the subject so they won't have 8 million people doing the same.

Jesus also gives us the choice at Matthew 24:13 that if we endure to the end ( end of life or his second coming ) so if known in advance there would be No need for Jesus to judge as he will judge by hearts as mentioned at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.

I’m not following your rationale here. Jesus knew he needed to come so he came. Once he arrived and grew, he knew what to do, what to say, what to believe, how to act, and why he needed to do these things, all at the proper time through revelation by God.

So Jesus knew he needed to tell us to “endure to the end”. Had he not told us this many more lives would be lost. Think of it as an encouraging word and not as some sly suggestion by Jesus or "scriptural proof" that God’s an ignoramus.

The claim God is ignorant is a conversation better left with agnostics, deists or atheists rather than bible believing Christians.

I notice at 1 John 3:20 'for if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and knows all things.'
Knows all things about our hearts, or as Hebrews 4:13 says that all things are naked and openly exposed to His eyes. We have an accounting for our free-will actions. We are responsible for our actions.

Agreed

But again, I’m not seeing how God is surprised by our free will actions if we are "naked and exposed" and He already knows our free will heart and minds before we do.

Can you explain the Watchtower’s rationale on this a bit more succinctly?

I think scripture is pretty clear:

Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them. Psalm 139:16​

He knew even before your heart was formed what you would say and do and that includes the conversation we are having now, the conversations we had in the past, and any conversation (God willing) we will have in the future.

That is why Jesus will separate people as per Matthew 25:31-33,37 placing the humble righteous-hearted ones with a favorable judgement. The figurative haughty ' goats ' will have an adverse judgement at that coming time.

Yes, the angels will gather the harvest and separate the weeds from the tares. All those whose names are found in the Book of Life to everlasting life, and those not found to everlasting contempt.

You’ll also notice that Revelation 13:7-8 tells us all the names in the Book of Life were written “...before the foundations of the earth were formed” and not during or after. Having one's name already written in the Book of Life would be awfully hard to do if our God were constantly bedazzled or confounded by our free will.

Your Organization believes God would have aborted mankind if He had any inkling we might become defective, much like a mother might abort her fetus if she thought it had a birth defect. I just don’t see the rationale for it. It’s not attitude arising from agape love.

God had a cure for mankind even with all our faults which is why He decided to allow us to be. To Him belong all the praise and glory forever

 

[scott777]

If we were all knowing, we would know why it's necessary for us to be alive, even though an all knowing and all powerful God knows what we will do before we do it. But we are not and we cannot fathom the purposes of an all knowing and all powerful God. But, we can fathom that which he chooses to reveal about himself in terms that mere mortals understand.

So what has he revealed to you, in terms of why you're alive?

 

[Scott C.]

So what has he revealed to you, in terms of why you're alive?

I believe God has revealed that we lived with him before we were born. He sent us to earth to learn and grow. He wants us to have joy in this life and the next. We have an eternal destiny to live with God and continue to progress forever. There are a couple of versus of scripture that say an awful lot:

"Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy." - Book of Mormon
"This is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man". - Pearl of Great Price.

 

[scott777]

I believe God has revealed that we lived with him before we were born. He sent us to earth to learn and grow. He wants us to have joy in this life and the next. We have an eternal destiny to live with God and continue to progress forever. There are a couple of versus of scripture that say an awful lot:

"Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy." - Book of Mormon
"This is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man". - Pearl of Great Price.

So you don't believe in hell? We can do anything and he won't punish us?

 

[Scott C.]

So you don't believe in hell? We can do anything and he won't punish us?

I believe in hell, but the Mormon view of hell is different from other Christians generally. What we do in this life does matter and there are consequences. God's plan of salvation is also called the plan of happiness. If we follow God's plan it will lead to joy in this life and the next. He wants us to follow that plan of happiness. But we have agency or free will to choose. In the Mormon view, only a low number of people will actually be in a state of unhappiness (hell) forever. All of the rest will have salvation, but with different degrees of glory and joy.

 

[ChristineM]

The topic was E=MC2? It was, then it wasn't. Your aunt was not the topic either, until it was.

Your not the one spouting the claimed thoughts of God? Of course not. How could you do that?

You think the angry one is me? My aunt has all her arms.

Why do I keep associating atheism with Christmas? It's easier than detailing all the things atheists didn't get, love, hugs, a life, money, intelligence, and whatever else they thought they should get if God really existed.

It's not up to me to decide who is and who is not a good Christian? It's not up to you either.

Your aunt story is relevant because I accused you of being angry? So you're not really angry that christians blew off your aunt's arm?

You put my ignorance in context? So, to you, people who know that your aunt had her arm blown off by Christians are smart and people who don't know that are ignorant?

I'm blaming you? Why not, you're blaming me for something I didn't do?

You smell projection? Visited a psychiatrist have you? What did their office smell like?

You're discussing what Christians did to your aunt, not blaming? Spin.

Why am I so hung up on philosophy? Being hung up on philosophy is better than being hung up on my aunt's arm.

GR and mass energy are not related. Your accusation of anger and my aunt are related. Live with it.

Once again, not me but you spouting the claimed thoughts of god, don't try and involve me in your delusion.

How interesting that you mock mutilation. You must be Christian

Oh you are 100% guilty of claiming to know the mind of god, you hypocritical posts are evidence of that.

What? Another straw man, jeez it really would be nice if you would actually provide a valid answer.

Correct, you (YOU) can spin it anyway you want. Having seen you mock mutilation then i know which way you spin.

You are delusional, i once mentioned my aunts arm to count your accusation of anger. You have stuck your christian hooks in that one sentence and play it as though it excuses your revolting accusations.

If all you can do is mock mutilation and spin to your disturbed mind then your are very poor advert for your faith

 

[Super Universe]

How do you know the aliens aren't primitive?



That's what I've been trying to tell you. I just see God a little less supernatural than you.



So why are you complaining? Go do something about it.



Like creating your own God?



No reason to put folks down, but I do mock beliefs on occasion. I think it's good to see how silly our beliefs can be sometimes.



What do you think is bad about "religion"?



How was Wilfred able to communicate to these celestial beings? Not through conscious perception so I assume it was via his soul.



Certainly not us right? Unless you have access to one of them evolved aliens perchance?



Agreed.



Well I guess I'm back to channelling then.

The double slit experiment I'm familiar with. Not sure how it applies in this case though.

I'll look up Leonard when I get a chance.

How do I know the aliens are not primitive? Because it makes more sense than the idea that everyone is lying about seeing something in the sky. I've never seen a ufo but here's the thing I really learned from the UB, once you realize that you are not as important as you thought you were, it makes sense. All the pilot reports, the police officers, the house wives, why would all of them by lying? If they have ships that can come here, they're not primitive.

You see God a little less supernatural than I? You think it's all in our brains. Our brains are making it all. How would our brains know to make a galaxy that is 13.2 billion light years away that we can only see with a space telescope?

Why am I complaining? I wasn't.

I should go do something about it? I am doing what I am supposed to be doing.

Some people can create my own God? No one can create except God. Try it, create something. All you can do is move things around, you're not creating.

No reason to put folks down? I was not trying to put you or anyone down, nor was I mocking your belief. To me, the truth is truth. People can't fix something if they don't even know they are doing it.

What do I think is bad about religion? Imposing rules on people. Controlling people. Getting money so the preacher does not have to work a real job. Providing a sense of superiority to one group of people. Forming groups that separate people. Book worship.

How was Wilfred able to communicate to the celestial beings? More like they communicated with him.

You assume it was via his soul? No, the souls are in heaven. Angels work mostly outside of heaven but they can tap into the connection.

Certainly not us? Not sure what you mean. No one knows when the next great genetic change will happen except God. Well, maybe Jesus knows.

Do I have access to one of them evolved aliens? Nope, no access.

You're not sure how the Double Slit experiment applies? The experiment showed that particles do not exist until they are viewed/sensed by something. So, the universe only forms areas that are necessary to provide you with accurate information.

 

[Super Universe]

GR and mass energy are not related. Your accusation of anger and my aunt are related. Live with it.

Once again, not me but you spouting the claimed thoughts of god, don't try and involve me in your delusion.

How interesting that you mock mutilation. You must be Christian

Oh you are 100% guilty of claiming to know the mind of god, you hypocritical posts are evidence of that.

What? Another straw man, jeez it really would be nice if you would actually provide a valid answer.

Correct, you (YOU) can spin it anyway you want. Having seen you mock mutilation then i know which way you spin.

You are delusional, i once mentioned my aunts arm to count your accusation of anger. You have stuck your christian hooks in that one sentence and play it as though it excuses your revolting accusations.

If all you can do is mock mutilation and spin to your disturbed mind then your are very poor advert for your faith

You are a really, really, really, really, really, angry little mouse.

 

[scott777]

I believe in hell, but the Mormon view of hell is different from other Christians generally. What we do in this life does matter and there are consequences. God's plan of salvation is also called the plan of happiness. If we follow God's plan it will lead to joy in this life and the next. He wants us to follow that plan of happiness. But we have agency or free will to choose. In the Mormon view, only a low number of people will actually be in a state of unhappiness (hell) forever. All of the rest will have salvation, but with different degrees of glory and joy.

But then there is still the problem of how he can be all-powerful and all-knowing. He must know if we are going to be bad and go to hell. So why doesn't he send us straight there and avoid the terrible things that some people do?

 

[Scott C.]

But then there is still the problem of how he can be all-powerful and all-knowing. He must know if we are going to be bad and go to hell. So why doesn't he send us straight there and avoid the terrible things that some people do?

Which takes me back to my original answer. We are not all knowing and are therefore not able to understand why an all knowing God would bother to send us to earth since he already knows who will end up where in the next life. Even if we would all make it to the highest heaven, why send us to earth? Why not just infuse into our minds all of the learning and growth needed rather than put us through a mortal life to gain experience? I don't really know. But I do believe there is a God and that he has revealed to us what he wants us to know and what we are capable of understanding. I can and do understand that I am accountable to God and what I do does matter and will impact my foreever.

 

[Nakosis]

How do I know the aliens are not primitive? Because it makes more sense than the idea that everyone is lying about seeing something in the sky. I've never seen a ufo but here's the thing I really learned from the UB, once you realize that you are not as important as you thought you were, it makes sense. All the pilot reports, the police officers, the house wives, why would all of them by lying? If they have ships that can come here, they're not primitive.

You're relying on what makes sense to you. I'm just pointing out that just because it make sense, doesn't make it true.

You see God a little less supernatural than I? You think it's all in our brains. Our brains are making it all. How would our brains know to make a galaxy that is 13.2 billion light years away that we can only see with a space telescope?

I don't know. When you dream how does your brain know who to create a completely autonomous entity to have a conversation with you?

Why am I complaining? I wasn't.

Yes you were. You were complaining about the state of reality that you find yourself in. Do I did to refer you back to that post?

I should go do something about it? I am doing what I am supposed to be doing.

So things are as they should be which is what I was originally saying anyway.

Some people can create my own God? No one can create except God. Try it, create something. All you can do is move things around, you're not creating.

Perhaps the only thing God is doing is moving things around. You of course can believe of God anything you wish. No need to prove any of it.

No reason to put folks down? I was not trying to put you or anyone down, nor was I mocking your belief. To me, the truth is truth. People can't fix something if they don't even know they are doing it.

I wasn't accusing you of anything. Just stating part of my own philosophy.

What do I think is bad about religion? Imposing rules on people. Controlling people. Getting money so the preacher does not have to work a real job. Providing a sense of superiority to one group of people. Forming groups that separate people. Book worship.

Not all religions are like this, but yes some are.

How was Wilfred able to communicate to the celestial beings? More like they communicated with him.

You assume it was via his soul? No, the souls are in heaven. Angels work mostly outside of heaven but they can tap into the connection.

Scientology is all about channelling. That's what they do. It's what they base their lore on. They call it auditing but it sounds very similar to the setup Kellogg had. They teach you to channel, they teach you how to help others channel. However they do it while you're hooked up to a lie detector. So they can tell if your consciousness is interfering with the channeling. I understand completely how this channelling could seem to be coming from celestial beings. And I'm not really saying it doesn't, just no way to really test that.

Certainly not us? Not sure what you mean. No one knows when the next great genetic change will happen except God. Well, maybe Jesus knows.

So you're just kind of agreeing with me here.

Do I have access to one of them evolved aliens? Nope, no access.

Bummer, I was hoping for an introduction.

You're not sure how the Double Slit experiment applies? The experiment showed that particles do not exist until they are viewed/sensed by something. So, the universe only forms areas that are necessary to provide you with accurate information.

Like I said it's possible but it is still theoretical. So it's truth remains in doubt. As we get more information we can verify it maybe necessary to alter those theories.

 

[Nakosis]

Which takes me back to my original answer. We are not all knowing and are therefore not able to understand why an all knowing God would bother to send us to earth since he already knows who will end up where in the next life. Even if we would all make it to the highest heaven, why send us to earth? Why not just infuse into our minds all of the learning and growth needed rather than put us through a mortal life to gain experience? I don't really know. But I do believe there is a God and that he has revealed to us what he wants us to know and what we are capable of understanding. I can and do understand that I am accountable to God and what I do does matter and will impact my foreever.

You believe that God reveals himself. So what if God revealed himself to you in a way you felt pretty certain it was God, yet he provided to you information which contradicts the teachings of the Church of LDS. Would you believe your own revelation or what the Church taught you and assume your revelation was a hallucination of sorts?

 

[Nakosis]

But then there is still the problem of how he can be all-powerful and all-knowing. He must know if we are going to be bad and go to hell. So why doesn't he send us straight there and avoid the terrible things that some people do?

Entertainment.

 

[Super Universe]

You're relying on what makes sense to you. I'm just pointing out that just because it make sense, doesn't make it true.



I don't know. When you dream how does your brain know who to create a completely autonomous entity to have a conversation with you?



Yes you were. You were complaining about the state of reality that you find yourself in. Do I did to refer you back to that post?



So things are as they should be which is what I was originally saying anyway.



Perhaps the only thing God is doing is moving things around. You of course can believe of God anything you wish. No need to prove any of it.



I wasn't accusing you of anything. Just stating part of my own philosophy.



Not all religions are like this, but yes some are.



Scientology is all about channelling. That's what they do. It's what they base their lore on. They call it auditing but it sounds very similar to the setup Kellogg had. They teach you to channel, they teach you how to help others channel. However they do it while you're hooked up to a lie detector. So they can tell if your consciousness is interfering with the channeling. I understand completely how this channelling could seem to be coming from celestial beings. And I'm not really saying it doesn't, just no way to really test that.



So you're just kind of agreeing with me here.



Bummer, I was hoping for an introduction.



Like I said it's possible but it is still theoretical. So it's truth remains in doubt. As we get more information we can verify it maybe necessary to alter those theories.

What makes sense to me is not necessarily true? Think about it. What is the real reason you don't believe in aliens? The answer is not something you are going to easily admit to.

When I dream, how does my brain know to create a completely autonomous entity to have a conversation with me? The brain is incapable of anything like that. The brain is not a biological information storage device, it's a biological receiver/transmitter. Our dreams happen in our mind which does not exist in our brains. The mind exists in God. The brain only receives the signal.

I was complaining about the state of reality I find myself in? I wasn't. What I said was "Jesus said that if we knew who we were we could tell a mountain to move and it would move." I didn't say I was disappointed or upset about it.

Things are as they should be? Depends on how your view of it. If Lucifer did not start a rebellion then Adam and Eve would not have failed and humanity would be much farther evolved than we are and Jesus probably would have picked another planet for His material being mission. There are a lot of things that I would have done differently.

Perhaps the only thing God is doing is moving things around? If you could move farther out in the universe you would see new nebula's forming where there were none before and you would see some of those nebula's spin up into spiral galaxies.

Scientology is all about channeling? Auditing is not channeling. I think you have a very wide definition of channeling. Meditation is also not channeling. Dreams are not channeling either. Channeling is having a telepathic connection with another being and allowing that being to use your body to convey information.

I'm agreeing with you that neither you or I know when the next genetic change will happen? There is a source that is saying that the next genetic change is already starting but it's not what I would consider a "credible" source.

You were hoping for an introduction to aliens? You shouldn't. The ones that are coming here are disobeying the law of non-interference. They are up to no good.

The Double Slit Experiment result is theory? The experiment result is not theory. The result is fact. Why and how the universe works like that is where the theory part comes in.