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Featured The Contradiction of an All-powerful, All-knowing God

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by scott777, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. scott777

    scott777 Member

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    Please Barnacle Bill, when you've finished with your barnacles, would you mind reducing your huge image of baby in car, which is so big, I think it may be slightly bigger than God and its starting to make me religious.:)
     
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  2. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    At least you know the difference between GR and mass energy equivalence? At least you know that. That's all you need. Good luck with it. And I never said they were the same.

    I dictate as though I am a dictator? Does a kindergarten teacher ask what the children want to learn today or do they dictate?

    Everything is a red herring to some people.

    I have nothing relevant? And you do? Give us some new philosophy. Just a little bit. I'll wait...

    Ask the universe how important people are and the reply will be "uh!" No, there won't be a reply.

    Why do I limit the action of the brain? I did not create humans so I did not limit the actions of the brain.

    The brain has lower functions that operate simultaneously? Those are brain stem functions, not cortex functions.

    I am not human? I am human, just not like you.

    I am bastardizing Schrodinger's Cat? No, go back and re-read the dual slit experiment. The wave changed to a particle ONLY when the detector was turned on. When it's off the wave appears, when it's on the particle appears.

    I seem to have much contusion over mass and energy? Right, much contusion.

    What about gluons, bosons, electrons, protons, neutrons, prions? What about them?

    How are they observed in a three dimensional universe? Not going to tell you.
     
  3. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    So, you think that seeing and touching something is proof? Do you believe in love? Do you believe in gravity? What about the speed of light, have you tested it or do you just trust others who you don't even know? What about history, did you see and touch it or do you just believe others peoples ideas?

    Falsifiability is proof to you? Okay, what percentage of the things that you believe in have you ever actually attempted to disprove?

    If everyone who has claimed to have spoken to God said the same thing then that would be proof to you? What if it was just a higher evolved being who had the ability to channel humans and was pretending to be God?

    You can create any God you want to? How about one that never created anything?

    I want to believe in a God channeled by Wilfred Custer Kellogg? The channeled person is not the source of the information. He's a tool.

    You're quite capable of creating a God that you can channel from? You're not but I will play your game. Create a god that can explain what dark energy and dark matter are.
     
  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Ok, smaller. :cool:
     
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  5. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    The supernatural can't be validated? Sure it can, just not by primitives.

    The mistake I made was not accepting what I was taught as a child? That was one of the best things I ever did. It wasn't because I had no faith, I had too much faith. I knew that God was not angry and not jealous and did not kill people despite what I was being told.

    There was no conviction for my subconscious to work with? The subconscious, the soul, has very little to work with other than a curiosity or attraction to certain things.

    For you faith is easy, you just let your subconscious take care of it? Ever have one of those moments when your mind flips back and forth between a good or a bad action? Like having an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other? One says "Cheat on your wife. She'll never know". The other says "Don't do it. It's wrong."

    Experiencing tongues might make me a believer? Been to churches that did that. It didn't do anything for me. I want new ideas, advanced philosophy, not parlor tricks that only fool the primitives.

    If you had my subconscious experiences, you would defecate your pants. I'm not talking about dreams either, I'm talking about daytime, not expecting it, bam!

    How did the celestial beings get their information on God? Heaven is God's central focus. Around heaven is paradise, the living place of beings who have ascended. Angels are formed in the dimensions outside of heaven so they do not know God. They only know what they have researched and what they have been told about God. The angels have their research in a book called "Liminal Cosmogony." The UB is only a part of that book.

    A shepherd can watch a flock and still write a book? I'm not writing a book. The book is already written but only a part of it is available here now. I'm looking for the one sheep who knows the rest of the book.

    The subconscious mind can create a reality for me to experience? The subconscious mind can't do very much. It can play around with the things it is given but that's about it.

    This thing you think is the subconscious mind is really God and the universe is a hologram. It's a movie and God is the movie projector. We don't realize it because we are in the movie.
     
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Interesting reasoning on your part, I want to make the point that there would be faithful ones such as starting with Adam's son Abel. As to how many would prove faithful is the unknown number.
    Just as we can't count the grains of sands on the seashore, who ends up faithful is an unknown number.
    Scripture tells us Jesus died for all, but because all would not end up accepting him is why Matthew 20:28 says Jesus' ransom covers MANY and does Not say all. That is because not all or everyone would accept Jesus' teachings. Only humble meek people will inherit the Earth.

    God sends No one straight to hell. Biblical hell is just the temporary grave for the un-conscious dead.
    That is why Jesus taught ' sleep ' in death and Not pain at John 11:11-14 which agrees with Psalms 115:17; 146:4.
    The dead know nothing according to Ecclesiastes 9:5. So the Bible's hell is just the grave.
    Man is responsible for his own choices. If man chooses evil it is his free-willed choice.
    No one forced Hitler and No one forced Pol Pot, etc.
    When resurrected if one chooses to be wicked they will be destroyed forever at that time frame.
    All the wicked destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7. 'Destroyed' and Not sent hell (grave).
    The allowing of wickedness at this time frame is showing that man can't establish Peace on Earth.
    It is man's history that shows beyond doubt that man can Not successfully govern himself.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I can't find a Scripture that says God judges us at death, rather at Romans 6:7; Romans 6:23 it says the one who has died "IS" freed or acquitted from sin. How would one judge one who is freed or acquitted from their sins.
    Just as a governor can free or acquit someone for their crimes, Jesus can free or acquit someone of their sins.
    So, I can't agree with the person's saying God judges us at death.

    As far as those of us still alive at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as per Matthew 25:31-33,37 it is the living that are judged at that time frame. So, there will be a judging of the living and the figurative righteous people are placed at Christ's right hand of favor, so to speak, meaning they can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governing rule over Earth begins.

    If God would have ended life with rebels Adam and Eve then none of us would have the opportunity to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us. The passing of time has allowed for all of us to be born.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Who says God is all-knowing. Sure God does know the final outcome that there will be healing for earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2, but as to who will be part of that healing benefit remains to be seen.
    We are all asked to ' repent ' at 2 Peter 3:9 if we do Not want to ' perish ' (be destroyed). The choice is ours to make.
     
  9. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I experience love, I experience gravity, the speed of light is a useful concept created by man. Actually I have some doubts about it, but that's neither here nor there. I don't trust claims of other folks that much. I give folks the benefit of the doubt but I'm not going to rely on them with any great certainty.

    I have to prove things to other folks all the time. It's part of my Job. Actually I try to prove everything I believe in. Like my ability to create a God. Of course there are thing I am unable to test. Like God for example. So I feel in these cases, I'm free to believe whatever I what as long as I don't pretend I have in certainty in that belief.

    I'm not saying you can't believe in any God you want to. I'm just saying it you are unable to test that belief then you shouldn't do so with any certainty.

    Sure, and what if we are all brains in a vat? Just being fed perceptions by a computer. This is the point. You can come up with any crazy scenario you want to if you're not going to try and validate it. You can believe it too. Just realize that if you are unable to test it, prove it through some means you really shouldn't feel certainty about it.

    Sure, just stick him in some void somewhere not doing anything. Be kind of easy to believe in since I wouldn't have to expect anything from them.

    I'm not saying you can't. You can believe anything you want. But if you can't test it, you really can't have in certainty in that belief.

    Honestly that would take time. I don't have direct control over the subconscious mind. Not sure I want to invest the time into it.

    I'm not sure what good it will do you though. Either I could honestly channel it. See what my subconscious mind it able to come up with, or consciously create a plausible explanation from whatever information I could gather.

    Either way you wouldn't be able to verify it for yourself, so I don't know exactly what it would prove. Might be fun though, for my own benefit. I'll think about it.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    God can read hearts ( we can't ) so yes God would know before a word in one's tongue because thoughts come before speech. You might find Jesus' recorded words at Matthew 12:34-37 to be of interest.
    Jesus also gives us the choice at Matthew 24:13 that if we endure to the end ( end of life or his second coming ) so if known in advance there would be No need for Jesus to judge as he will judge by hearts as mentioned at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.

    I notice at 1 John 3:20 'for if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and knows all things.'
    Knows all things about our hearts, or as Hebrews 4:13 says that all things are naked and openly exposed to His eyes. We have an accounting for our free-will actions. We are responsible for our actions.
    That is why Jesus will separate people as per Matthew 25:31-33,37 placing the humble righteous-hearted ones with a favorable judgement. The figurative haughty ' goats ' will have an adverse judgement at that coming time.
     
  11. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    You believe in love and gravity because you experience them? So believing is not just seeing and touching then?

    You don't trust claims of other folks much? Do you grow/raise your own food? Do you inspect bridges before you drive over them? Did you build your own home? Do you inspect elevators before riding in them? Do you inspect tall buildings before going into them?

    You like to prove everything you believe? You can't. There's no way. Even an engineer can't test everything they learned in college. They have to have faith.

    If I can't test my belief then I should not believe with certainty? Thou shalt not test the Lord.

    What if we are all brains in a vat being fed by a computer? That's pretty close.

    Everything can't be tested. You're not going to be able to test God, ever. That's why humanity was given the idea of faith. It was not supposed to mean have faith in what religion is telling you, it was supposed to mean that at some point you are going to have to believe in God without being given absolute proof.

    You can create a God in a void? How could you imagine a God who created nothing at all? Where did your ability to imagine this god come from if that god had not formed you?

    I can believe anything I want? Of course I can. I already knew that.

    If you can't test it then you can't be sure? I can. Perhaps you can't but that is you. Just as you allow me to believe what I want, I will allow you to believe what you want.

    It would take time for your subconscious mind to come up with an explanation for dark energy and dark matter? Time is forever. Someone is going to come up with it.

    You could channel it? So, you have channeling abilities then? And you think you are talking to your subconscious mind? WHAT? Somethings fishy in the woods. You're either not channeling, which is more like it, but you think you are. Is this supposed channeling happening during a meditation session? Or are drugs involved?

    Either way I wouldn't be able to verify the source of dark energy/dark matter myself? But I could verify you.
     
  12. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Not by primitives? I assume you're referring to humans? Since we only got humans around here, by default, it can't be validated.

    So you went shopping for a God. Found a premade one you felt comfortable with. One you felt lived up to your expectations of a God.

    Most folks seem to feel there is more authenticity when someone else has created a God for them. Ok, it's not up to me to decide what kind of God you need. You're happy with what you got, no need to change.

    It depends. It's not the same for everyone. The more ideas, the more beliefs you're exposed to, the more the subcon/soul has to work with.

    Sure, prayed on it and received a answer. It just "popped" in my head.

    Yes, folks tend to find what they are looking for. Everyone assumes themselves above being fooled, until they've realized they've been fooled again.

    Yes, it can be pretty bad. To the point you'd prefer to avoid them. Some aren't so bad, some are kind of nice. However you start really looking for the truth. It can be pretty devastating to one's sense of self.

    And Scientology has a completely different religious lore. You want to believe in the UB, others want to believe in something else. It's all pretty arbitrary. A Scientologist has as much reason to believe in the lore of Scientology and you believing the the lore of the UB.

    Apparently your soul does, so ask it. I'm certain it is quite capable of providing the answers you seek. They just may not be the same answers my soul provides to me.

    Then you don't really understand. You don't realize yet how insignificant your conscious awareness is. I can't really teach you this through the forums, but I suggest to start doing some research on the subconscious mind.

    It's possible, it as likely as any other scenario you'd care to create or have someone else create for you. You are free to choose whatever belief that makes sense to you. Just best not to assume that belief is for everyone.
     
  13. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Sure, you can believe whatever you want as long as you're not requiring any proof.

    Do I trust my food? Not really but I don't care. Whatever happens, happens. I'll be able to deal with it or I won't. I see other folks successfully driving over bridges. My home suck. The folks who built it didn't know what they were doing. Supposedly they pay off the inspector to approve track houses. Elevators, tall buildings, there is evidence of other folks making of these things which provides some confidence. Of course I don't fully trust them until I've made use of them myself.

    Ok, so? I didn't say I could test everything, I just said I'd like to.

    Kind of a convenient for believers. No one says you have to, just best to realize your lack of certainty in these regards.

    To what? Something we can't prove. If you like it, you're free to believe it. You can't be proven wrong.

    Or believe something else without absolute proof. You can have faith in your God, I can have faith in whatever I want.

    My concept of God need not conform to your concept of God. I can believe in multiple God. I can believe in a separate universe full of Gods. Your God seems to be a very limited concept. Of course allowing other folks to channell God for you limits your flexibility in that regard.

    [/quote]
    I can believe anything I want? Of course I can. I already knew that.
     
  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Why ate you trying to belittle me with ignorance and irrelevance? Then difference between GR and mass energy is just one of the many things i know and if you take that hateful christian attitude we are done here
     
    #94 ChristineM, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  15. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    We only have humans around here? Are you sure about that? What evidence do you have?

    I went shopping for a God? Didn't have to, I think I always knew, I just didn't know how or why so if it wasn't something I could explain it didn't matter to me whether it really did exist or not.

    God lives up to my expectations? Not even close. My expectations would be that God would provide a safe learning environment for His children to learn. There is nothing safe about a primitive society with serial killers, molesters, sexual deviants, thieves, liars, selfish people, and control freaks.

    People can't just create the God they want. They tried but nature interfered so they had to modify their ideas and add in an angry element to God.

    I'm happy with what I got? I'm not happy about it. The strong prey on the weak. The smart prey on the uneducated. The selfish prey upon the gullible. The universe is the gladiator pit.

    Subconscious is not the same for everyone? You're talking about consciousness, the mind, not subconcious.

    Folks tend to find what they are looking for? Do they? Or do they end up accepting the closest thing they can find?

    Looking for truth can be devastating to one's sense of self? Sometimes you have to tear down something to build it up correctly. Humans have inflated ego's when they've never been anywhere in the universe and haven't experienced even a fraction of it.

    Scientology has different ideas? They do. One of the good things about the Urantia Book is that no one has tried to make it into a religion, yet. Hopefully no one ever will.

    Apparently my soul knows the book? It doesn't know the book, it has access to the Akashic Record but access is not given just because the human mind wants to know something.

    I don't realize how insignificant my concious awareness is? I do understand. It's very immature compared to what it will be.

    You suggest that I start doing some research on the subconscious mind? I don't have to. Do you ever go back to first grade and sit in to freshen up?

    It's possible that the universe is really a hologram? Ever read up on the double slit experiment?
     
  16. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    Why am I trying to belittle you? I never did. All humans are primitive, not just you.

    The difference between GR and mass energy is just one of the many things you know? I'm sure that's true but I never said they were the same thing and you keep trying to say I did.

    If I take a hateful Christian attitude we are done? You don't hate an angry mouse for being an angry mouse.
     
  17. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    You said, That's all you need. Good luck with it. Your opinion of humans is not my problem. Your ignorance of the human race is also not my problem.

    One topic was mass energy, you confided it with GR. End of story

    And there you go again with straw man arguments. What has a mouse tondo with you hatred of anyone not you
     
  18. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    I said GR is all you need, good luck with it? You can use it for everything, relationships, how to raise the kids, how to fix the car, it's all knowing.

    My opinion of humans is not your problem? It seems to be.

    My ignorance of the human race is also not your problem? Anything to make you feel better about yourself.

    One line said that time was space while another line says E=MC2? One line is one idea. A different line is another idea.

    There I go with straw man arguments and red herring arguments? Does your atheist abacus tell you what arguments are what?

    You're not just an angry little mouse. You're a very angry little mouse. No matter what you do you can't stop faith in anyone except yourself.
     
  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Total bull in an vane attempt to cover your ignorance of GR.

    You do seem to have a big ego don't you? Doesn't wash with me, i just see it as self important self deluding

    Nope, you implied them as related, you have since been educated and don't have the courage to admit it.

    And another? Atheist Abacus? Who teaches you this rubbish or is it specially formulated to insult that which you don't understand

    You have no idea do you? Angry? Me? You really are off the wall there. The last time i got angry was in 1996 when good christians blew off my aunts arm. You ate not even worth such emotion. Damn you cant even have a decent debate without burying it on straw men and irrelevance. Whoever told you to insult with abaci, ask them about sticking to the subject.

    Have no intention of stopping anyone's faith, that faith is up to them. I can however provide food for thought, whether you nourish yourself is up to you
     
  20. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    I'm ignorant about GR? Most people are. I never said E=MC2 was GR.

    I have a big ego? It's not nearly as inflated as yours.

    I implied GR was related to mass/energy? I didn't but you have to invent things in order to justify your intense anger at believers. Everything has to be our fault. Nothing is your fault.

    Who teaches me rubbish? Angry atheists who didn't get the toy they wanted one Christmas so they are going to be upset about it the rest of their lives and nothing anyone says will change it.

    The last time you were angry was in 1996 when good christians blew off your aunt's arms? To you those were good christians, huh?

    I can't even have a debate without burying it in straw man and irrelevance? And your aunt's story is relevant, how? I was nowhere near the hills of West Virginia in 1996.

    Whoever told me to ask about the atheists abacus, I should tell them to stick to the subject? Why? What would be the point? I can't change what happened. Sometimes people need an excuse for why their lives are messed up. Everything always has to be someone else's fault.

    You have no intention of stopping anyone's faith? So you're just blaming them for what some other people did.

    You can provide food for thought? Okay then, provide the world with some great new philosophy, some new idea. I can't wait.
     
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