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Featured The Conflicting Theologies of the New Testament

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by The Reverend Bob, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    It is all over, all over NT. Look just at 1Cor 2, ONLY GNOSTICS, I repeat ONLY had division of souls on psychics and pneumatic. Nobody else . It is a classic, stressing oida type of knowledge and Gnosis type of knowledge difference is all over NT, and stressing that oida is for psychic and Gnosis for pneumatic. Calling Christ Jesus when addressing pneumatic and Jesus Christ when addressing psychics....I found it all over Gospels and Paul, John, Peter letters.
     
  2. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    Give me any text , I referred you guys to "Gnostic Paul" for a reason , it is all spelled out in the book. Just look at Greek in Jn14 where Jesus explained his students that they do not know him and God because they oida instead of gno. Do not use English it is confusing.
     
  3. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    1 Corinthians 2:14 Lexicon: But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
    1 Corinthians 2:15 Lexicon: But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. appraisers all things. Classic Gnosticism.
    Psychic vs Pneumatic - What's the difference? - gives you an idea
    Psychics do not understand spirit , pneumatic
     
  4. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Active Member

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    I always understood his viewpoint to be that good works result from our faith.

    Romans 12:9-21 New International Version (NIV)
    Love in Action
    9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
    10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.
    11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord.
    12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.
    13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
    14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
    15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn.
    16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.3 Do not be conceited.
    17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
    18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
    19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”4 says the Lord.
    20 On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”5
    21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    Romans 8:5-8:
    5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
    6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
    7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
    8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
     
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  5. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Well, just because one gospel stresses something and the other stresses something else that doesn't mean they contradict. Secondly, if the scriptures are inspired by the true Spirit of God; then only the Spirit of God can show us what they really mean. Because the scripture is not meant to replace one's relationship with God. It's meant to point you to God; so you can learn directly from Him. Because that is what He wants to do for people. And He will remind them of the scriptures and show them what they really mean. Because, He has hidden these things from the wise and the prudent and revealed them to babes. For so it seemed good in His sight ... because He is doing a marvelous work. The wisdom of this world's wise men will perish and the understanding of their prudent will be hidden. The scriptures to them will be as a letter that is sealed and can't be opened because it's sent to someone else. Or it will be in a language they cannot read because they haven't learned.

    So people have so many different doctrines and views because they aren't learning from the holy Spirit; but are relying on themselves. Now, if people will learn from the holy Spirit they will learn a lot and be surprised because He will show them wonders out of His Word. And the Word of God is sent to them. God is going to restore the truth in full for those with ears to hear. But many people would rather debate scriptures among themselves then ask God or get to know God. Let the blind lead the blind and they will both fall in the ditch as Jesus said.
     
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  6. Zita

    Zita Solitary Eclectic Witch

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    Exactly why I say t
    Well seeings how there is a lot of contradictions in the bible,to me only supports what I have said all along; that God did not inspire or have any input in The Bible. I've said it thousands of times that I believe The Bible is a well written story by man on a mission , designed with words that provoke fear and control that was written with the spirit of brainwashing,and they have done just that successfully for those who truly believe in those words in the book, for all these thousands of years. Mission Completed.

    .Why would someone just make up stuff and put it in words and call it the bible? Who knows?maybe the author was selfish and didn't want anyone to know the real truth but him,so he could be the only one with that power and all the benefits that come along with worshiping the real "God" of this world.

    Maybe it was written because the real truth was too easy,so man decided to put more drama to God's words. Or maybe it was a sick joke.Like I said who knows?
    All I know is the real Creator would never condone most of the actions and thoughts in that book,cause the real Creator is All Love,not a angry, jealous, judgemental, non forgiving, violent nature,hell pushing, ,vengeful,demanding,punishing, dominating,spiritual limiting Creator that the bible says.

    Oh yea that's right let's not forget after all those things he then in the same breath of the author,The Creator becomes this loving all understanding wonderful spirit,that contradicts scripture about himself. Really? That right there should raise a hair,you just said, God doesn't contradict himself,right?

    People don't consider that really disturbing and confusing and unrealistic?To each it's own,but myself "I'm not buying it at all" and that's my right to feel and believe as I want also!! So stop trying to convince me and others like me with the very scriptures we don't even believe in, that we am wrong and misguided and headed to the pits of hell cause we don't follow and believe what you believe and follow as the truth,no proof at all just blind faith,as you say. (good comeback,but really weak.)

    Yes, I state and give reasoning for my belief,but I don't try to force it on no one,and I'm not trying to hard convince people with something I can't even prove myself,like Bible believers do all the time. If someone asked me to prove my opinion,I can but wouldn't be able to, because most Christians or those who believe in what the bible says,would not consent to how I would present my proof, and the methods I would use, (they would say it's of evil )so I wouldn't even waste my time or yours,but at least I can produce my proof.Even Christians and such know the Scriptures can't be proven as true words of God.

    I know I will get the "well,you have a good comeback,by saying you won't waist our time because we wouldn't allow your methods!,that's a way to worm out of giving proof.)" I have a comment for that before it's even said. For me to present my proof of most of my belief I'd have to be in the presence of you,not over the computer.Seeing is believing!! Now if you want to come to my place,then it's on,otherwise it's not possible

    Some of my belief is disproving your belief with common sense reasoning and logic,which I've done in the past but it never gets anyway because they just disputed all the way using more scriptures!! so what's the use? There is none cause I'm just a wicked witch who is doing the work of evil, in your eyesight anyway and I couldn't possible know better and more then you!! right?

    I'm just glad I don't concern myself with what other's say about me.They have a right to their opinion as well. That's Life.
     
  7. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    St. Paul didn't say that good works were unnecessary. He says that following the Mosaic Law (works of the Law) is unnecessary.
     
  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I believe the Bible contains spiritual Revelation inspired, but unfortunately it is compiled, edited and redacted by humans over hundreds of years, with most books of no known authorship.

    The bottom line is assertions of belief without evidence and documentation is simply assertion of belief.
     
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  9. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    The difference is not only in the theology of the Evangelists but the Christology. In Paul nothing is said of Jesus' birth other than he was 'born of a woman'. In Mark Jesus is acknowledged as God's Son at his baptism. Matthew and Luke Jesus is God's Son at his birth. Known as an ascending Christology, from His earthly life to the D/R. John employs a descending Christology, Jesus born from above, the D/R is one single event.
     
  10. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    1 Cor 13 Paul outline the path. It begins in stage called faith when you like seeing through dark glass and need baby food, you train your senses (Heb5) learning good and evil in grow to stage called hope when you partially know (Gnosis), then you continue getting mature and more training of senses and you step in the sage called AGAPE (love) when you fully know (Gnosis) and you are fully known by God. This the path, evolution of Christian consciousness.
     
  11. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    I agree but certain people who will not read the Bible with a critical eye can't see that strange things are afoot at the Circle K. These doctrinal contradiction are more important to understand than let us say textual contradiction.
     
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  12. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    In direct contradiction to what Jesus said about following the Mosaic Law in Matthew
     
  13. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    There is nothing inherently Gnostic in that passage. The problem is you can't see that because you want to read the NT through the sectarian lens of Elaine Pagel's pseudo-Gnosticism. I see nothing in those verses that is outside the theological realm of Judaism, spiritual birth is a consistent theme within the rabbinical writings, the Quram community of Essenes, John the Baptist taught it and Jesus taught it and it is even found in the Book of Genesis. It was found way before Gnosticism became a plague upon mankind. One doesn't have to lower oneself to meanderings of pseudo-Gnostics in order to understand that passage all one needs to do is apply historical critical methods to see that it has nothing to do with Gnosticism.
     
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  14. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that any lay person could without the guidance of critical scholarship. The problem, that so many unfortunately believe it to be the enemy of their faith.
     
  15. atanu

    atanu Member
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    That is correct. Unfortunately, so called critical method/s suffer most from being bound to the prejudice that mind-sense perceptions inform the truth.
     
  16. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    I totally agree. God would have the wisdom to ensure that there could be no misunderstandings or contradictions.
     
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  17. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    Jesus may have existed as a man of wisdom and as a spiritual person without being God in the flesh.
     
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  18. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    You are so correct.
     
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  19. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Perhaps the gospel writers ruined it by trying so hard to make Jesus into the new Moses.
     
  20. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    I believe that anything is possible but I am more familiar with the Judeo Christian beliefs. I am trying to learn about other beliefs. I am part Celtic (Scottish) and Native American (Osage). I believe that all beliefs could have some validity and should be considered.
     
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