The Concept of Prophethood - How useful is it?

[Dawnofhope]

It is hard to avoid the term Prophet in religious discourse. It is central to Abrahamic Religions, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. I'm not aware of its use in Dharmic Faiths though there may be parallels, for example the word Avatar in Hinduism. I'm wanting to explore and better understand the concept of Prophethood in this thread. How important is it to interfaith and religious discourse?

Wikipedia states:

"In religion, a prophet is an individual who is regarded as being in contact with a divine being and is said to speak on behalf of that being, serving as an intermediary with humanity by delivering messages or teachings from the supernatural source to other people.[1][2] The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy."

"Claims of prophethood have existed in many cultures and religions throughout history, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, ancient Greek religion, Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism, and many others."

I don't wish to debate conflicting claims of Prophethood or the existence of God. Instead, I wish to understand how the term Prophet is viewed across the spectrum of religious and secular beliefs. Does the term help clarify important religious concepts or simply antagonize on account of its association with beliefs about God. Does its use too easily lend to irreconcilable differences about who is and isn't a Prophet?

What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance for dropping by?

 

[PureX]

Looking at events and asking if anyone saw their probability in advance could be useful in helping us to predict probable events in the future. Labeling people 'prophets', however, is only going to misrepresent reality, and lead us into foolish delusions.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Looking at events and asking if anyone saw their probability in advance could be useful in helping us to predict probable events in the future. Labeling people 'prophets', however, is only going to misrepresent reality, and lead us into foolish delusions.

It sounds as if you identify a Prophet as one who can predict the future. That is certainly one aspect of Prophethood within some Abrahamic Faiths but probably not the core aspect.

If one is viewed a Prophet in this manner then it certainly could be contentious though arguably no more than the concept of God or a claim of being a new Prophet within a religious tradition.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

At issue is whether judgment and guidance is human or reliably stems from the divine.

 

[Yerda]

The Bible stories of the prophets are generally the most interesting parts, for me. Always loved the story of Daniel. As a literary technique, God sending visions or dreams in order to get the message out is effective but I prefer it when gods just show up on Earth for a blether like Krishna with Arjuna.

I'm not really comfortable with the idea of people speaking for God. I'm pretty sure if there was such a being it would be telling is directly what was what. I don't have anything much to add to a debate but I'm looking forward to reading what others have to say on the subject.

 

[PureX]

It sounds as if you identify a Prophet as one who can predict the future. That is certainly one aspect of Prophethood within some Abrahamic Faiths but probably not the core aspect.

If one is viewed a Prophet in this manner then it certainly could be contentious though arguably no more than the concept of God or a claim of being a new Prophet within a religious tradition.

Theoretically, we could program a computer to predict probable future events. And that would be useful. But calling the computer a prophet would only be misleading, and invite superstitions and delusions and such.

 

[Dawnofhope]

At issue is whether judgment and guidance is human or reliably stems from the divine.

That is certainly an integral and inescapable part of what defines a Prophet.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Bible stories of the prophets are generally the most interesting parts, for me. Always loved the story of Daniel. As a literary technique, God sending visions or dreams in order to get the message out is effective but I prefer it when gods just show up on Earth for a blether like Krishna with Arjuna.

I'm not really comfortable with the idea of people speaking for God. I'm pretty sure if there was such a being it would be telling is directly what was what. I don't have anything much to add to a debate but I'm looking forward to reading what others have to say on the subject.

Belief in God or gods aside, many of the stories within religious traditions whether Abrahamic or Dharmic are great. They have become embedded within cultural traditions throughout the millennia.

There is an interesting parallel in both Christianity and Vaishnava where God Himself incarnates Himself in human form to speak directly to the people.

For the purpose of this thread it doesn't matter whether such stories are literally true. That said, I lean towards the metaphorical.

 

[danieldemol]

The concept of prophethood is useful if your aim is to outsource morality in order to make it unchallengeable.

The problem is we can then outsource wrong ideas to ignorant people who are willing to proclaim those wrong morals and their own prophethood so those wrong ideas then become unchallengeable.

In my opinion.

 

[Aštra’el]

I am my own “prophet”.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The concept of prophethood is useful if your aim is to outsource morality in order to make it unchallengeable.

I personally don’t know of anyone who consciously aims to do just that. Do you? It may be a phenomenon of religions that have high levels of control of their members of theocratic type governments.

The problem is we can then outsource wrong ideas to ignorant people who are willing to proclaim those wrong morals and their own prophethood so those wrong ideas then become unchallengeable.

For those who believe in Prophets the issue is whether we are following a genuine Prophet or false prophet. For those who don’t believe in Prophets, all Prophet based religions (eg Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith) are wrong.

Do you have any external religious authority that assists you in life Daniel? I’m aware you once considered yourself a Baha’i.

 

[danieldemol]

I personally don’t know of anyone who consciously aims to do just that. Do you?

It may not be a conscious aim, but it seems to me as though at the subconscious level people believe in prophets because what the alleged prophet says is from God resonates with them. So I remain open to the idea that saying God said this may be driven by a subconscious need to have one's beliefs be unchallengeable.

Otherwise why not just state, I believe this for reason X, why the need to drag God into it at all?

Do you have any external religious authority that assists you in life Daniel? I’m aware you once considered yourself a Baha’i.

Not any more.

In my opinion

 

[Twilight Hue]

It is hard to avoid the term Prophet in religious discourse. It is central to Abrahamic Religions, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. I'm not aware of its use in Dharmic Faiths though there may be parallels, for example the word Avatar in Hinduism. I'm wanting to explore and better understand the concept of Prophethood in this thread. How important is it to interfaith and religious discourse?

Wikipedia states:

"In religion, a prophet is an individual who is regarded as being in contact with a divine being and is said to speak on behalf of that being, serving as an intermediary with humanity by delivering messages or teachings from the supernatural source to other people.[1][2] The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy."

"Claims of prophethood have existed in many cultures and religions throughout history, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, ancient Greek religion, Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism, and many others."

I don't wish to debate conflicting claims of Prophethood or the existence of God. Instead, I wish to understand how the term Prophet is viewed across the spectrum of religious and secular beliefs. Does the term help clarify important religious concepts or simply antagonize on account of its association with beliefs about God. Does its use too easily lend to irreconcilable differences about who is and isn't a Prophet?

What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance for dropping by?

Prophets are essentially a failsafe to justify a deity or supernatural persona for the purposes of convincing others on things that are not there through 'predictive' means imv.

It's only useful for the receptive who buy into such things.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I am my own “prophet”.

All the best with that

 

[stvdv]

So I remain open to the idea that saying God said this may be driven by a subconscious need to have one's beliefs be unchallengeable.

Otherwise why not just state, I believe this for reason X, why the need to drag God into it at all?

Seems true to me:
Conscious
Subconscious
Lack of confidence

 

[stvdv]

I'm not aware of its use in Dharmic Faiths though there may be parallels, for example the word Avatar in Hinduism

Hello @Dawnofhope
I hope all is well with you in Christ Church

Interesting thread

I never thought about whether there are prophets in Hinduism or not, so I had to Google. Probably you read below wiki info already, then it's just a reminder for myself and maybe others
"Hinduism includes a diversity of ideas on spirituality and traditions, but has no ecclesiastical order, no unquestionable religious authorities, no governing body, no prophet(s) nor any binding holy book;
Hindus can choose to be: polytheistic, pantheistic, panentheistic, pandeistic, henotheistic, monotheistic, monistic, agnostic, atheistic or humanist.[61][62][63]
According to Doniger, "ideas about all the major issues of faith and lifestyle – vegetarianism, nonviolence, belief in rebirth, even caste – are subjects of debate, not dogma."[48]"

 

[stvdv]

I'm not aware of its use in Dharmic Faiths though there may be parallels, for example the word Avatar in Hinduism

I never thought about "no Prophets in Hinduism", but now you start this OP, thinking about it, this makes perfect sense, as I describe below your next quote

"In religion, a prophet is an individual who is regarded as being in contact with a divine being and is said to speak on behalf of that being, serving as an intermediary

IMO:
In Hinduism the goal is to introspect as to realize the Divine in Mother, Father, Guru, Others and all of Creation

By doing this practice, God can speak directly to those who practise. Hence no need for a Prophet. Hence understandable to me that there are no Prophets as such in India, as it might undermine their given practice (Realize the Divine inside)

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hello @Dawnofhope
I hope all is well with you in Christ Church

Interesting thread

I never thought about whether there are prophets in Hinduism or not, so I had to Google. Probably you read below wiki info already, then it's just a reminder for myself and maybe others
"Hinduism includes a diversity of ideas on spirituality and traditions, but has no ecclesiastical order, no unquestionable religious authorities, no governing body, no prophet(s) nor any binding holy book;
Hindus can choose to be: polytheistic, pantheistic, panentheistic, pandeistic, henotheistic, monotheistic, monistic, agnostic, atheistic or humanist.[61][62][63]
According to Doniger, "ideas about all the major issues of faith and lifestyle – vegetarianism, nonviolence, belief in rebirth, even caste – are subjects of debate, not dogma."[48]"

The concept of Prophethood appears central to the Abrahamic Faiths and that is an important difference between Hinduism and her Abrahamic cousins. Moses, Muhammad and Christ were clearly identified by their followers as Prophets of God. These Prophets then emphasized the oneness of God and strict monotheism. So it becomes difficult to have the diversity of belief that exists in Hinduism. There are strengths and weakness in the two contrasting paradigms. Hinduism allows diversity of thought that can not exist within Abrahamic traditions. Abrahamic Faiths provide consensus and certainty around core issues of life that would be near impossible within Hinduism. Of course there are many shades if grey and the Abrahamic Faiths can be much more diverse and nuanced than appears possible at first glance. Within the traditions of Hinduism there are plenty of schools of thought that appear Abrahamic.

I am a universalist as you would expect from both adherents of the Baha'i Faith and Sai Baba.

Thanks for your valuable contribution.

 

[stvdv]

I'm wanting to explore and better understand the concept of Prophethood in this thread. How important is it to interfaith and religious discourse?

Paramount importantance I would say

Without proper understanding of Prophethood, within the different contexts, respectful interfaith communication is doomed to fail.

There can be talks of course, but no way Unity in Diversity will be achieved (Harmony while keeping their own respectful Faiths)

 

[stvdv]

It is hard to avoid the term Prophet in religious discourse. It is central to Abrahamic Religions, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith

I'm not aware of its use in Dharmic Faiths though there may be parallels, for example the word Avatar

I'm wanting to explore and better understand the concept of Prophethood in this thread. How important is it to interfaith and religious discourse?

In a way, even Hinduism uses a kind of Prophets (using your definition), as they have the concept of Guru, Seer, Saints and Poets who are all spreading the Light (Message). And of course, as you mentioned they have the Avatars. Through all of these, the Lords Message can spread

Guru is the one who can dispell darkness

Prophet in Abrahamic Religion is all about "Surrender to God". And 'coincidentally' in Hinduism the final step is "Total Surrender to God" too

So, after all, I do not see contradictions in Abrahamic and Dharmic Religions. True, they seem very different from the outside, but from the inside both help us reach "Full Surrender to God"+++

To me all Prophets are precious gifts from the Divine, and I value them all, and I also value the Avatars, Gurus, Saints and Seers from India. All are jewels with more wisdom than I could even dream of