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The concept of consent

Makaveli

Homoioi
Consent:

1, v: To permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often fol. by to or an infinitive)
2, n: permission, approval, or agreement; compliance; acquiescence

Philosophers have wrangled with the concept of consent for years, and indeed whole volumes have been devoted to the subject. To this end, I have attempted to encapsulate the theory of consent into a relatively short definition that is satisfactory in the majority of situations and circumstances, and is flexible to change. In my definition I incorporate elements of political and civil consent, to create a theory that applies to all areas of modern life.

I have defined consent as having two qualities: it is either revokable, or it is not revokable. To define both of them, I will first give several criteria to which the consent may be judged:

  • Legitimate: The consent is given willingly, without coercion.
  • Illegitimate: The consent is not given willingly, or is procured by means of coercion or other immoral or illegal practices. This consent is always wrong.
  • Informed: The consent is given by a person, or a people, who are fully aware of what they are consenting to, to the degree that they know all relevant facts that the other party (the person, organization, or government they are consenting to) possesses.
  • Uninformed: The consent is given by a person, or a people, who do not know all of the relevant facts possessed by the other party, or even any of them, and effectively do not know what they are consenting to.
  • Without coercion: The consent is obtained without the use of coercion or any other illegal or immoral practice.

These are the main criterion for consent I have laid out. Consent can be legitimate if it is uninformed, and consent can be illegitimate if it is informed. Consent is always illegitimate if it is obtained under coercion if there is no recourse. Now, I will go into the main branches of my theory of consent, mainly if the consent has recourse, or does not have recourse.

Consent with recourse: This is consent that can be revoked, at any time, by the person or people that originally gave the consent; it should only be as difficult to revoke consent as it was to give it, and it should only be as difficult to revoke consent as the other party (i.e. the person, organization or government accepting the consent) wants to make it. I will give examples of various forms of consent with recourse based on my above defined criteria:

  • Ex 1. A politician is elected to the Presidency of the United States based on lies and deception, and successfully cons the American people into voting for him/her. The people gave their consent thinking that this person would be a good president, but he/she in reality is not. When the people find out about this, they demand he/she be impeached. This is uninformed, legitimate consent without coercion, since it was obtained correctly, but left the citizens without any real conception of what they were consenting to.
  • Ex 2. A politician gains power through a military coup and appoints himself head of government. This would be illegitimate consent, since it was obtained without consent of the people.

Consent without recourse: This is consent that cannot be revoked by any means by the person or people that gave it. This mostly applies to special instances, such as sex (you cannot 'un-sex' yourself). Consent without recourse, unlike consent with recourse, MUST meet several criteria: it must be informed, without coercion, for it to be considered legitimate.

  • Ex. A woman consents to have sex with a stranger who she thinks is her husband, but in actuality is a strange man she has never met before. From all angles, it seems that she has legitimately consented to have sex with this person who she thought was her husband, because it was without coercion, but the stickler here is that it was uninformed consent. Since consent without recourse must be informed to be legitimate, this woman was raped because she was uninformed of who she was sleeping with, even though it was without coercion.

Therefore, consent is either with recourse, where it must only be without coercion to be legitimate (informed or uninformed is unimportant, since the consent is always revokable), or consent is without recourse, where it MUST be informed and without recourse to be legitimate.

This is a theory in progress so if anyone has any suggestions or holes in my theory that they would like to point out, please do. I welcome any comments and constructive criticism to be had.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
Consent:

1, v: To permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often fol. by to or an infinitive)
2, n: permission, approval, or agreement; compliance; acquiescence

Philosophers have wrangled with the concept of consent for years, and indeed whole volumes have been devoted to the subject. To this end, I have attempted to encapsulate the theory of consent into a relatively short definition that is satisfactory in the majority of situations and circumstances, and is flexible to change. In my definition I incorporate elements of political and civil consent, to create a theory that applies to all areas of modern life.

I have defined consent as having two qualities: it is either revokable, or it is not revokable. To define both of them, I will first give several criteria to which the consent may be judged:

  • Legitimate: The consent is given willingly, without coercion.
  • Illegitimate: The consent is not given willingly, or is procured by means of coercion or other immoral or illegal practices. This consent is always wrong.
  • Informed: The consent is given by a person, or a people, who are fully aware of what they are consenting to, to the degree that they know all relevant facts that the other party (the person, organization, or government they are consenting to) possesses.
  • Uninformed: The consent is given by a person, or a people, who do not know all of the relevant facts possessed by the other party, or even any of them, and effectively do not know what they are consenting to.
  • Without coercion: The consent is obtained without the use of coercion or any other illegal or immoral practice.

These are the main criterion for consent I have laid out. Consent can be legitimate if it is uninformed, and consent can be illegitimate if it is informed. Consent is always illegitimate if it is obtained under coercion if there is no recourse. Now, I will go into the main branches of my theory of consent, mainly if the consent has recourse, or does not have recourse.

Consent with recourse: This is consent that can be revoked, at any time, by the person or people that originally gave the consent; it should only be as difficult to revoke consent as it was to give it, and it should only be as difficult to revoke consent as the other party (i.e. the person, organization or government accepting the consent) wants to make it. I will give examples of various forms of consent with recourse based on my above defined criteria:

  • Ex 1. A politician is elected to the Presidency of the United States based on lies and deception, and successfully cons the American people into voting for him/her. The people gave their consent thinking that this person would be a good president, but he/she in reality is not. When the people find out about this, they demand he/she be impeached. This is uninformed, legitimate consent without coercion, since it was obtained correctly, but left the citizens without any real conception of what they were consenting to.
  • Ex 2. A politician gains power through a military coup and appoints himself head of government. This would be illegitimate consent, since it was obtained without consent of the people.

Consent without recourse: This is consent that cannot be revoked by any means by the person or people that gave it. This mostly applies to special instances, such as sex (you cannot 'un-sex' yourself). Consent without recourse, unlike consent with recourse, MUST meet several criteria: it must be informed, without coercion, for it to be considered legitimate.

  • Ex. A woman consents to have sex with a stranger who she thinks is her husband, but in actuality is a strange man she has never met before. From all angles, it seems that she has legitimately consented to have sex with this person who she thought was her husband, because it was without coercion, but the stickler here is that it was uninformed consent. Since consent without recourse must be informed to be legitimate, this woman was raped because she was uninformed of who she was sleeping with, even though it was without coercion.

Therefore, consent is either with recourse, where it must only be without coercion to be legitimate (informed or uninformed is unimportant, since the consent is always revokable), or consent is without recourse, where it MUST be informed and without recourse to be legitimate.

This is a theory in progress so if anyone has any suggestions or holes in my theory that they would like to point out, please do. I welcome any comments and constructive criticism to be had.

The woman's consent was not legitimate. She consented to have sex with her husband, not this stranger. The deception, being immoral, lends itself to the illegitimacy of the consent.
 

Alusky

Dog lover
*Removes dust from this thread*

Humans don't know the concept of consent, I have see sites listing how to get 100% consent during sex with is a lot of lies, most if not all humans never really give informed consent to have sex. In my opinion every human is raping other humans during sex.

For example: Wife and husband are about to have sex and they do it, they both just raped each other, he failed to inform her that he once had sex with his sister (both adults) when he was drunk, that is something so disgusting to her, that if she knew she would get divorce and never ever have sex with him. Also she raped him, she failed to tell him that she loves and finds very erotic to play with poop during sex (something she did many times previously before marring to this guy but doesn't do anymore) That is something so disgusting that would have keep his husband even from touching her for the rest of his life. (examples like this happens mostly during every sexual relationships as people never know each other that well and of course they won't say the truth if that scares the other person from having sex with you)

I don't know if anyone get my point? Unless both persons knows each other lives with every details, there's no way informed consent can exist before sex. (a consent that is 100% accurate)

In my opinion humans maybe get 60% consent at best when they have sex, they are just horny and do it without much thinking, just like animal do, humans are over thinking sex too much. The main way humans gets consent to sex is nonverbal consent (again just like animals) they never talk about it or write in a paper "yes I agree to consent to sex" (thought this would be useful on cases where the woman repents hour later and claims she was raped)

Now I wonder, what percentage of consent is acceptable to not be rape?
As clearly humans can't get 100% consent and clearly anything under 49% consent would be rape, what porsentage is acceptable? 51% 60% 70% 80% 90%?

Does anyone has this answer?
 
Last edited:

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
*Removes dust from this thread*

Humans don't know the concept of consent, I have see sites listing how to get 100% consent during sex with is a lot of lies, most if not all humans never really give informed consent to have sex. In my opinion every human is raping other humans during sex.

For example: Wife and husband are about to have sex and they do it, they both just raped each other, he failed to inform her that he once had sex with his sister (both adults) when he was drunk, that is something so disgusting to her, that if she knew she would get divorce and never ever have sex with him. Also she raped him, she failed to tell him that she loves and finds very erotic to play with poop during sex (something she did many times previously before marring to this guy but doesn't do anymore) That is something so disgusting that would have keep his husband even from touching her for the rest of his life. (examples like this happens mostly during every sexual relationships as people never know each other that well and of course they won't say the truth if that scares the other person from having sex with you)

I don't know if anyone get my point? Unless both persons knows each other lives with every details, there's no way informed consent can exist before sex. (a consent that is 100% accurate)

In my opinion humans maybe get 60% consent at best when they have sex, they are just horny and do it without much thinking, just like animal do, humans are over thinking sex too much. The main way humans gets consent to sex is nonverbal consent (again just like animals) they never talk about it or write in a paper "yes I agree to consent to sex" (thought this would be useful on cases where the woman repents hour later and claims she was raped)

Now I wonder, what percentage of consent is acceptable to not be rape?
As clearly humans can't get 100% consent and clearly anything under 49% consent would be rape, what porsentage is acceptable? 51% 60% 70% 80% 90%?

Does anyone has this answer?

The answer is>>>>THIS is SO SAD!!!! I thought I was messed up in the head!:sad4:

Love

Dallas
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
*Removes dust from this thread*

Humans don't know the concept of consent, I have see sites listing how to get 100% consent during sex with is a lot of lies, most if not all humans never really give informed consent to have sex. In my opinion every human is raping other humans during sex.

For example: Wife and husband are about to have sex and they do it, they both just raped each other, he failed to inform her that he once had sex with his sister (both adults) when he was drunk, that is something so disgusting to her, that if she knew she would get divorce and never ever have sex with him. Also she raped him, she failed to tell him that she loves and finds very erotic to play with poop during sex (something she did many times previously before marring to this guy but doesn't do anymore) That is something so disgusting that would have keep his husband even from touching her for the rest of his life. (examples like this happens mostly during every sexual relationships as people never know each other that well and of course they won't say the truth if that scares the other person from having sex with you)

I don't know if anyone get my point? Unless both persons knows each other lives with every details, there's no way informed consent can exist before sex. (a consent that is 100% accurate)

In my opinion humans maybe get 60% consent at best when they have sex, they are just horny and do it without much thinking, just like animal do, humans are over thinking sex too much. The main way humans gets consent to sex is nonverbal consent (again just like animals) they never talk about it or write in a paper "yes I agree to consent to sex" (thought this would be useful on cases where the woman repents hour later and claims she was raped)

Now I wonder, what percentage of consent is acceptable to not be rape?
As clearly humans can't get 100% consent and clearly anything under 49% consent would be rape, what porsentage is acceptable? 51% 60% 70% 80% 90%?

Does anyone has this answer?

YES I have the answer...have YOU ever been RAPED ???That you would have the nerve to insinuate that two people having sex together are "raping each other " and not knowing it?Because they have a mind with memories or experiences that the other person cant have complete knowledge of before "consenting" to sex?

There is no "%" of rape..there is rape and there is "not rape".

Whatever..

Love

Dallas
 

Alusky

Dog lover
YES I have the answer...have YOU ever been RAPED ???That you would have the nerve to insinuate that two people having sex together are "raping each other " and not knowing it?Because they have a mind with memories or experiences that the other person cant have complete knowledge of before "consenting" to sex?

There is no "%" of rape..there is rape and there is "not rape".

Whatever..

Love

Dallas

Things doesn't work like that, I have consensual sex with my partner and yet people call it rape because is not 100% (is more around a 80%), consent is a complex thing, and is clear that getting 100% of it is impossible so what % is acceptable, thats all I want to know.
 
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