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Featured The Comparison between Judgement Day and Terrorism

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by thomas t, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    In this video , Christopher Hitchens compares rapture, which is Judgement Day according to my interpretation, and terrorism calling it both Final Solution.

    However, Judgement Day has to do with justice and 9/11 hadn’t had anything to do with justice, for instance.

    Moreover, in my opinion there needs to be some sort of separation between those in heaven and the rest to prevent heaven from becoming a place like earth is now.

    If you let ocean polluters enter heaven, all the seas would be just as polluted as here on earth, for instance. (see picture by Deutsche Welle, below)

    So, it makes sense for God to leave ocean polluters out, I think.

    My conclusion, the comparison between judgement day and terrorism does not make any sense whatsoever.
     

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  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    You claim that judgement day is just about justice.

    But for example, does your God leave out people that are not ocean polluters on the basis they don't believe?

    And what happens to the people left out, do they suffer infinitely for finite crimes?
     
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  3. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Well..the truth is that we Christians let God decide and judge in the Afterlife.
    Other religions replace God, as for judgment.
     
  4. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    And I’m sure if asked a fanatical believer might say 9/11 was for justice.
    One person’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter


    (Please note I’m only playing devils advocate.)
     
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  5. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    thank you for this answer.
    I personally think that people may not suffer infinitely for finite crimes.
    In my opinion, there is no reason to believe that people stop sinning right after physical death.

    For me, judgement day is like this:

    Everyone has sinned, everyone committed something bad and has harmed creation.
    Those who confess and apologize, though, can claim Jesus's blood.
    But if you confess to God, that means you believe and accepted Jesus as Lord prior to your confession.

    To answer your question: God will leave people out on the basis of what they did.
    But since noone would enter heaven then, there is that caveat called Jesus.
     
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  6. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    I think you are building a straw man when you say that Hitch compares the rapture to terrorism. That was only the introduction to his real point which is that the mind set of the suicide bomber is the same as someone in an apocalyptic cult (which all Christian sects are, more or less).
    It is the hope of The End™, the final solution, the Apocalypse Now.
    Do you dream of being raptured? Leaving everyone and everything unclean behind? Do you like to look forward to every unbeliever being killed by war, famine and pestilence? Many Christians do. Those are the ones Hitch is talking about.
     
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  7. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Few Christians do. Since we believe in free will and only God can judge. And God can't even violate people's free will .
     
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  8. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    and this is not a comparison between rapture and terrorism?
    I must have missed the point of the whole video then.

    I personally don't dream of rapture... I dream of heaven.
    After having talked to Christians, no Christian that I spoke with dreams of rapture, they all only dream of heaven.
     
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  9. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Many Evangelicals in the US do. All JW do. Everyone who takes the hallucinations from an ergot trip serious does it (more or less).
     
  10. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's more a US American thing? There you can become candidate for Vice President with such a conviction.
     
  11. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Okay...but I guess Hitchens was talking about theocracy. And what a religion can do when it has political power. :)
    Think of the Vatican...centuries of unjust executions in God's name.
    A religion cannot and should not have political power. That is why the Italians took Rome from the Pope in 1870.
    JWs and others do nothing bad imho.
     
  12. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Unless you believe in the Power of God that everything He touches instantly is purified
     
  13. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I like his answer in the first 2 minutes where he answers the question "Why waste time refuting God IF you do not believe in God"
     
  14. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Hey! You make it sound like that's the only condition for becoming VP. The truth is, we also look for the sort of sterling character that is required of nearly all of our politicians.

    Of course, we almost never find any character. Not in the vast majority of them. But we always look for it. Sheesh! Dang Germans! Always making out like we Americans have low standards!

    Admit it! You've been upset with us ever since we shipped you all that maize after the war and not the wheat you asked for, right? Well, how were we to know what 'corn' meant in German?
     
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  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    For some it had everything to do with justice.

    I am pretty sure the bible has much to say on judging others

    See previous comment. And what gives you the impression that heaven contains seas?

    And my conclusion is that it totally depends on your personal belief.
     
  16. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    Adam was touched they day of his creation, see Genesis 1.
    He wasn't improper. No need for him to get more purified.
    Yet he sinned the exact same day.
     
  17. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    that's a very good comment.
    As if you read and interpreted Revelation 21:1.
    But some kind of nature will still be there, according to the Bible. There will be lakes, I think.
    Lakes are nice and New Earth will be a nice place (see same verse).
    Those who pollute nature today might do so again if they were allowed to enter heaven.
     
  18. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Yes, that seems to be part of Creation, Free Will, mind changing like the waves in the sea. Or Adam was not solid in being pure. Still some mind left
     
  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I have read several bibles,

    And you are making assumptions.
     
    #19 ChristineM, Jan 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  20. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Ironically it is the apocalyptic belief of Christians that lets some keep on polluting with arguments like "Jesus is returning soon anyhow, so climate change will be irrelevant then".
    It's the "no future" mentality that is part of Hitchens' critique.
     
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