1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Colorado killings

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jeffrey, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,366
    Ratings:
    +1,008
    Most of us have heard what has happened there this last weekend, and excuse me if this has been discussed. An ARMED security guard at the church shot the wacco, and he then killed himself... Since when do churches have ARMED security guards? It was a "blessing" that they did, but I have never been to a church with ARMED guards. Have any of you ever been to a church with ARMED guards? Heard of any such church?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. angellous_evangellous

    Ratings:
    +0
    Jeff, I don't think that the security gaurd was armed.

    Police seek link in Colorado attacks - USATODAY.com
     
  3. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    It appears she was and that they put her in place when they heard about the other shootings. Good plan!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. angellous_evangellous

    Ratings:
    +0
    Oh, I see. I read this as unarmed:

    Police seek link in Colorado attacks - USATODAY.com
    Here's the statement from the church:
    http://www.newlifechurch.org/db_images2/12-10-9am.pdf
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    It's a tragedy all around. I hope that they will find peace through all of this.
     
  6. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,366
    Ratings:
    +1,008
    According to CNN, the security guard fired and hit him with at least 3 rounds. But Pete, this brings up another question. If you suspect that a deranged mad man might show up and start killing people, why would you hold service, putting innocent people in arms way? At least inform the members. I'm sure the father that got shot and lost his two daughters would have liked that opportunity to have had that option of whether to come to church of not.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,945
    Ratings:
    +1,494
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Mr Suspicious

    Mr Suspicious Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    174
    Ratings:
    +8
    Well it saves on paperwork if anything.
     
  9. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    This assumes that they weren't told and that they did not make an informed opinion.
     
  10. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,193
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
  11. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    19,902
    Ratings:
    +3,255
    No. At my parents' church they have member patrolling the parking lot during services to deter vandals and thieves, but they're not armed.

    What's really interesting is that they not only have armed guards at that church, but the minister, or one of the ministers, said the woman in question usually served as his personal security guard, but was sent out to keep an eye on things because they were worried about the possibility of violence.

    It strikes me more than a little strange when these men of god feel the need for armed personal security. I mean, to live is Christ, and to die is gain, right? And they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, don't they? Wouldn't Jesus warn them of any danger, unless it was his will to call them to the sweet by and by?

    A cynical person -- not a wide-eyed innocent like myself, but a cynical person -- could almost get the idea they don't believe what they're preaching.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. lunamoth

    lunamoth Will to love

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,871
    Ratings:
    +1,630
    Religion:
    Episcopalian
    What a waste and a shame. Four young people have been brutally killed. Senseless violence is senseless violence. It can't be anticipated or stopped, unless of course you'd like a lot more of your civil liberties taken away, and even then it is impossible to stop the psychotic loner from acting in such an unpredictable way. I think this conversation is missing the boat. It's not about religion, the religious, God. It's about how fragile and vulnerable we all are, and how we let each other down. Why are the victims here overlooked as compared to say the school or mall shootings? I pray for peace, strength, and support for these families as they mourn their dead children.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,366
    Ratings:
    +1,008
    Great post. Anybody dare to want to answer?
     
  14. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,366
    Ratings:
    +1,008
    No relation I hope! lol.
     
  15. Hope

    Hope Princesinha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,363
    Ratings:
    +408
    You make an interesting, and very good, point. Sadly, I think here in the US Christians, by and large, have no concept of what real faith is, because we live such lives of ease. I wonder myself, quite often, how I would react if I lived in another country where I would daily face the possibility of death or torture for my beliefs. That kind of pressure really reveals what kind of faith one possesses. So I get what you're saying.

    On the other hand, while "to live is Christ, and to die is gain" is certainly true, Jesus also calls us to be "wise as serpents, and innocent as doves." Meaning, we shouldn't try to be "super spiritual" at the expense of forsaking all common sense and wisdom. God gave us brains for a reason, and if He provides a means of protection (such as security guards), then to flippantly dismiss such protection is to make oneself essentially a martyr at best, or suicidal at worst.
     
  16. Hope

    Hope Princesinha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,363
    Ratings:
    +408
    Just to continue with some thoughts on this tragedy.....I took special interest in it because of where the gunman first struck, before going to the church----at a Youth With A Mission (YWAM) base.

    I am a former YWAMer (pronounced as "why-wammer"----it's what all those affiliated with the organization call themselves). Anyhooo....it's a great organization, that operates worldwide, and as far as I know, this is the first time anything like this has ever happened on one of their bases.

    According to the reports I read, the YWAM base claims this young man did not finish his training course because of health problems. Knowing the organization's strict standards and policies, I'd venture to guess there is more to the story than that. More than likely, there were behavioral issues as well. It would seem to me this would explain the young man's bitterness and anger more. But I know YWAM is very discreet about all their personal dealings with staff and students, so it doesn't surprise me they would keep their side of the story to a minimum.

    It's just so sad it had to end the way it did.
     
Loading...