The Church's Introduction to The Book of Mormon

[Prestor John]

I'm not looking for exact wording. What have you got?

I began making a list of things you should consider before I answered your questions, but that ended up running a little long and I ran out of time for today. So, think of this as like a “prequel” to your answers. Sorry.

I think the first thing to cover would be what the Book of Mormon does not claim.

The Book of Mormon does not claim:

1.) That the Jaredites were the first or only people to inhabit the promised land before the arrival of the Lehites.

2.) That the Lehites were the last people to inhabit the promised land.

3.) That neither the Jaredites nor the Lehites came in contact with other people in the promised land.

4.) That the Lamanites were the only people to inhabit the promised land after the destruction of the Nephites.

5.) Where exactly the events of the Book of Mormon took place (i.e “the promised land”).

There are obviously no verses to quote to prove that the Book of Mormon did not mention something.

A FEW THINGS TO CONSIDER ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE IN THE BOOK OF MORMON

The Book of Mormon does offer us some information about other people inhabiting the promised land.

1.) The most compelling hint that the Lehites dwelt with other people is the “allegory of the olive tree” recorded in Jacob 5. The Lord uses this allegory to explain His method of offering salvation to Mankind and blessing all the inhabitants of the Earth by scattering Israel among them. Israel is likened unto a “tame olive tree” while other nations of people are likened unto “wild olive trees”.

In this allegory, the vineyard of the Lord is the world and it is populated by many olive trees. All are wild save the one tame olive tree, however, the tame olive tree is dying. In order to preserve the fruit of the tame olive tree, the Lord of the vineyard takes the most fruitful branches off of the tree and grafts them into some of the wild olive trees. He then takes some branches from the wild olive trees and grafts them into the tame olive tree. He does this with the hope that He can save both the tame olive tree and all the other wild olive trees.

Many times throughout the Book of Mormon the Lehites mention that they are considered a branch broken off from the tree of Israel (1 Nephi 10:12, 14; 15:7, 12-13, 16; 19:24; 2 Nephi 3:5; 9:53;10:1; Jacob 2:25; Alma 26:36).

This allegory only makes sense if the Lehites (as a branch of the tame olive tree) were taken from the tame olive tree (Israel) and grafted into a wild olive tree (another nation) and became a part of that wild olive tree.

Therefore, it is crucial, according to the Plan of Salvation that the Father has for His children, that the scattered branches of Israel become one with the Gentile nations and grow alongside them. This would include the Lehites. They came to the promised land and were “grafted into” another nation and grew with them. There had to have been other people(s) inhabiting the promised land before the Lehites ever arrived. And when they arrived, the Lehites united with these people(s).

2.) When the Lord warned Nephi to flee from his older brothers, Nephi recorded,

“Wherefore, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did take my family, and also Zoram and his family, and Sam, mine elder brother and his family, and Jacob and Joseph, my younger brethren, and also my sisters, and all those who would go with me. And all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and the revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words.” (2 Nephi 5:6)

If the Lehites had not been “grafted into” another nation of people, then who besides his immediate and extended family members could have come with Nephi? He specifically mentioned that after he got all his family and friends to follow him that he also got “all those who would go with [him]” to come as well.

Who were these other people besides members of the indigenous population who had been converted and were willing to follow a foreign man they considered to be a prophet of God?

3.) Soon after the Nephites split from the Lamanites Nephi claims that,

“And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.” (2 Nephi 5:16)

Building anything even close to resembling Solomon’s temple would have taken many decades unless Nephi had thousands of workers at his disposal. So, it is obvious that Nephi did not have only a handful of people with him. He had to have had help from many converts from the indigenous people that Nephi and his family had been “grafted” into.

4.) In the same chapter Nephi claims that,

“And it sufficeth me to say that forty years had passed away, and we had already had wars and contentions with our brethren.” (2 Nephi 5:34)

Nephi knew what a “war” was. He had come from the land of Jerusalem and he had the plates of brass which contained the records of the Jews, including their many wars. So, would Nephi really describe some raiding parties of a few men a “war”?

Not only this, but Mormon (the guy abridging these plates) himself had been a war commander for many years, so he would have definitely known what a “war” was.

In order for the Nephites and Lamanites to have had a “war” after only forty years since they left Jerusalem, both groups would have needed to recruit from an indigenous population.

5.) There is the obvious mention of the people of Zarahemla, who was a descendant of Mulek, son of Zedekiah, King of Judah. They had been led by the Lord out of the land of Jerusalem at the time of the city’s destruction and when Zedekiah had been taken captive by the Babylonians. (Omni 1:13-16, Mosiah 25:2, Helaman 6:10)

Even though the Lehites had the prophesy of Isaiah concerning the eventual destruction of Jerusalem (2 Nephi 3:8) and also the visions of both Lehi and Jacob that confirmed that Jerusalem had indeed been destroyed (2 Nephi 1:4, 6:8), the Lord had prepared and sent these Mulekites to be physical witnesses of Jerusalem’s destruction to bear witness of that fact to the Nephites (Helaman 8:21).

Lehi also alluded to the idea that the Lord had and would still lead others out of the land of Jerusalem into the promised land (2 Nephi 1:9). Nephi also, while he and his family were still camped in the valley of Lemuel, spoke about many lost tribes of Israel that had been led away and scattered “upon the isles of the sea” (1 Nephi 22:4), which he later testified included them (2 Nephi 10:20-21).

6.) Another compelling piece of evidence that there were other people inhabiting the promised land is the mention of Sherem, the anti-Christ, who contended with Jacob.

Jacob 7 introduces Sherem as simply a “man” who had come among the people of Nephi. It does not describe him as either a Nephite or as a Lamanite, just a “man” (Jacob 7:1).

Remember that Jacob had been born in the wilderness of the Old World (1 Nephi 18:7) and was among the first generation of those who had migrated to the promised land. The Lehites had separated into the Nephites and Lamanites during Jacob’s lifetime (2 Nephi 5:5-9), so the record would most definitely have described Sherem as being either a Nephite or a Lamanite if he had been either.

Another clue that Sherem was not a Lehite is the fact that the record claims that Sherem “was learned, that he had a perfect knowledge of the language of the people” (Jacob 7:4), if he had been either a Nephite or a Lamanite, why would the record claim that he was “learned” for simply knowing their common language?

Also, when Sherem accused Jacob of leading the Nephites away to blasphemies, he referred to the Nephites very impersonally as “this people” (Jacob 7:7). If he had been a Nephite, would he have spoken of them in that way?

To me it is obvious that Sherem was an outsider who had come among the Nephites and had been taught in their language and their religion. After he had attained a proper grasp of the language and of their religion he had become “learned” and he began to teach his false doctrine.

Sherem could possibly have been a Jaredite. The Book of Ether claims that during a time of wickedness among the Jaredites the Lord caused a severe drought which killed many people. Some of them escaped to the lands southward, which the record claims was the land of Zarahemla (Ether 9:31-32). It is unclear when this event occurred. It could have happened before either the Lehites or the Mulekites had arrived to the promised land. The record points out that not many Jaredites were able to flee southward due to many poisonous serpents that the Lord had placed to “hedge up the way that the people could not pass” (Ether 9:33).

7.) Something Mormon said is very convincing of the fact that the Nephites were living amongst other nations of people,

“But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.” (Mormon 9:34)

If Mormon had been writing this amidst a Nephite-only nation, how could he claim that no one else knew his language? How could Mormon know that other people would not know his language unless he lived among people who spoke another language?

We do know that Pre-Columbian America was ethnically and linguistically diverse. Is Mormon’s comment about no one else knowing his language evidence that he lived among nations of varying languages?

8.) In conjunction to the last point, Mormon’s son, Moroni, in chapter ten of his book near the end of the Book of Mormon records the various gifts of the spirit, which included the gift of tongues.

If the Nephites and Lamanites were isolated and did not associate with other people of varying tongues, why would Moroni know about or ever need the gift of tongues?

9.) Lastly, there are various names in the Book of Mormon, some sounding Hebrew, Egyptian and even Greek.

Considering that Nephi claimed that the Lord leads away the righteous to “precious lands” (1 Nephi 17:38) and that Lehi claimed that the land of promise was a “precious land” (2 Nephi 1:10), could this be evidence that the promise land was a melting pot of immigrants from various nations?

 

[Watchmen]

I began making a list of things you should consider before I answered your questions, but that ended up running a little long and I ran out of time for today. So, think of this as like a “prequel” to your answers. Sorry.

I think the first thing to cover would be what the Book of Mormon does not claim.

The Book of Mormon does not claim:

1.) That the Jaredites were the first or only people to inhabit the promised land before the arrival of the Lehites.

2.) That the Lehites were the last people to inhabit the promised land.

3.) That neither the Jaredites nor the Lehites came in contact with other people in the promised land.

4.) That the Lamanites were the only people to inhabit the promised land after the destruction of the Nephites.

5.) Where exactly the events of the Book of Mormon took place (i.e “the promised land”).

There are obviously no verses to quote to prove that the Book of Mormon did not mention something.

A FEW THINGS TO CONSIDER ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE IN THE BOOK OF MORMON

The Book of Mormon does offer us some information about other people inhabiting the promised land.

1.) The most compelling hint that the Lehites dwelt with other people is the “allegory of the olive tree” recorded in Jacob 5. The Lord uses this allegory to explain His method of offering salvation to Mankind and blessing all the inhabitants of the Earth by scattering Israel among them. Israel is likened unto a “tame olive tree” while other nations of people are likened unto “wild olive trees”.

In this allegory, the vineyard of the Lord is the world and it is populated by many olive trees. All are wild save the one tame olive tree, however, the tame olive tree is dying. In order to preserve the fruit of the tame olive tree, the Lord of the vineyard takes the most fruitful branches off of the tree and grafts them into some of the wild olive trees. He then takes some branches from the wild olive trees and grafts them into the tame olive tree. He does this with the hope that He can save both the tame olive tree and all the other wild olive trees.

Many times throughout the Book of Mormon the Lehites mention that they are considered a branch broken off from the tree of Israel (1 Nephi 10:12, 14; 15:7, 12-13, 16; 19:24; 2 Nephi 3:5; 9:53;10:1; Jacob 2:25; Alma 26:36).

This allegory only makes sense if the Lehites (as a branch of the tame olive tree) were taken from the tame olive tree (Israel) and grafted into a wild olive tree (another nation) and became a part of that wild olive tree.

Therefore, it is crucial, according to the Plan of Salvation that the Father has for His children, that the scattered branches of Israel become one with the Gentile nations and grow alongside them. This would include the Lehites. They came to the promised land and were “grafted into” another nation and grew with them. There had to have been other people(s) inhabiting the promised land before the Lehites ever arrived. And when they arrived, the Lehites united with these people(s).

2.) When the Lord warned Nephi to flee from his older brothers, Nephi recorded,

“Wherefore, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did take my family, and also Zoram and his family, and Sam, mine elder brother and his family, and Jacob and Joseph, my younger brethren, and also my sisters, and all those who would go with me. And all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and the revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words.” (2 Nephi 5:6)

If the Lehites had not been “grafted into” another nation of people, then who besides his immediate and extended family members could have come with Nephi? He specifically mentioned that after he got all his family and friends to follow him that he also got “all those who would go with [him]” to come as well.

Who were these other people besides members of the indigenous population who had been converted and were willing to follow a foreign man they considered to be a prophet of God?

3.) Soon after the Nephites split from the Lamanites Nephi claims that,

“And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.” (2 Nephi 5:16)

Building anything even close to resembling Solomon’s temple would have taken many decades unless Nephi had thousands of workers at his disposal. So, it is obvious that Nephi did not have only a handful of people with him. He had to have had help from many converts from the indigenous people that Nephi and his family had been “grafted” into.

4.) In the same chapter Nephi claims that,

“And it sufficeth me to say that forty years had passed away, and we had already had wars and contentions with our brethren.” (2 Nephi 5:34)

Nephi knew what a “war” was. He had come from the land of Jerusalem and he had the plates of brass which contained the records of the Jews, including their many wars. So, would Nephi really describe some raiding parties of a few men a “war”?

Not only this, but Mormon (the guy abridging these plates) himself had been a war commander for many years, so he would have definitely known what a “war” was.

In order for the Nephites and Lamanites to have had a “war” after only forty years since they left Jerusalem, both groups would have needed to recruit from an indigenous population.

5.) There is the obvious mention of the people of Zarahemla, who was a descendant of Mulek, son of Zedekiah, King of Judah. They had been led by the Lord out of the land of Jerusalem at the time of the city’s destruction and when Zedekiah had been taken captive by the Babylonians. (Omni 1:13-16, Mosiah 25:2, Helaman 6:10)

Even though the Lehites had the prophesy of Isaiah concerning the eventual destruction of Jerusalem (2 Nephi 3:8) and also the visions of both Lehi and Jacob that confirmed that Jerusalem had indeed been destroyed (2 Nephi 1:4, 6:8), the Lord had prepared and sent these Mulekites to be physical witnesses of Jerusalem’s destruction to bear witness of that fact to the Nephites (Helaman 8:21).

Lehi also alluded to the idea that the Lord had and would still lead others out of the land of Jerusalem into the promised land (2 Nephi 1:9). Nephi also, while he and his family were still camped in the valley of Lemuel, spoke about many lost tribes of Israel that had been led away and scattered “upon the isles of the sea” (1 Nephi 22:4), which he later testified included them (2 Nephi 10:20-21).

6.) Another compelling piece of evidence that there were other people inhabiting the promised land is the mention of Sherem, the anti-Christ, who contended with Jacob.

Jacob 7 introduces Sherem as simply a “man” who had come among the people of Nephi. It does not describe him as either a Nephite or as a Lamanite, just a “man” (Jacob 7:1).

Remember that Jacob had been born in the wilderness of the Old World (1 Nephi 18:7) and was among the first generation of those who had migrated to the promised land. The Lehites had separated into the Nephites and Lamanites during Jacob’s lifetime (2 Nephi 5:5-9), so the record would most definitely have described Sherem as being either a Nephite or a Lamanite if he had been either.

Another clue that Sherem was not a Lehite is the fact that the record claims that Sherem “was learned, that he had a perfect knowledge of the language of the people” (Jacob 7:4), if he had been either a Nephite or a Lamanite, why would the record claim that he was “learned” for simply knowing their common language?

Also, when Sherem accused Jacob of leading the Nephites away to blasphemies, he referred to the Nephites very impersonally as “this people” (Jacob 7:7). If he had been a Nephite, would he have spoken of them in that way?

To me it is obvious that Sherem was an outsider who had come among the Nephites and had been taught in their language and their religion. After he had attained a proper grasp of the language and of their religion he had become “learned” and he began to teach his false doctrine.

Sherem could possibly have been a Jaredite. The Book of Ether claims that during a time of wickedness among the Jaredites the Lord caused a severe drought which killed many people. Some of them escaped to the lands southward, which the record claims was the land of Zarahemla (Ether 9:31-32). It is unclear when this event occurred. It could have happened before either the Lehites or the Mulekites had arrived to the promised land. The record points out that not many Jaredites were able to flee southward due to many poisonous serpents that the Lord had placed to “hedge up the way that the people could not pass” (Ether 9:33).

7.) Something Mormon said is very convincing of the fact that the Nephites were living amongst other nations of people,

“But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.” (Mormon 9:34)

If Mormon had been writing this amidst a Nephite-only nation, how could he claim that no one else knew his language? How could Mormon know that other people would not know his language unless he lived among people who spoke another language?

We do know that Pre-Columbian America was ethnically and linguistically diverse. Is Mormon’s comment about no one else knowing his language evidence that he lived among nations of varying languages?

8.) In conjunction to the last point, Mormon’s son, Moroni, in chapter ten of his book near the end of the Book of Mormon records the various gifts of the spirit, which included the gift of tongues.

If the Nephites and Lamanites were isolated and did not associate with other people of varying tongues, why would Moroni know about or ever need the gift of tongues?

9.) Lastly, there are various names in the Book of Mormon, some sounding Hebrew, Egyptian and even Greek.

Considering that Nephi claimed that the Lord leads away the righteous to “precious lands” (1 Nephi 17:38) and that Lehi claimed that the land of promise was a “precious land” (2 Nephi 1:10), could this be evidence that the promise land was a melting pot of immigrants from various nations?

This is a bit much. Can you simplify? My two questions are repeated below. Can you provide chapter and verse in answer to each question? I'll look them up and give you my thoughts.

Where in the Book of Mormon does it claim the Lamanites are among the ancestors of the American Indians?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it claim the Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians?

 

[Prestor John]

This is a bit much. Can you simplify? My two questions are repeated below. Can you provide chapter and verse in answer to each question? I'll look them up and give you my thoughts.

Where in the Book of Mormon does it claim the Lamanites are among the ancestors of the American Indians?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it claim the Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians?

Based on your comment I am assuming that you didn't actually read what I had posted.

There is no reason to assume that a long post cannot be simple or to the point. I just had a lot of examples to share.

I wanted to provide background information before answering your questions so that I could present the position given in the Book of Mormon as clearly as possible.

Please read my post so that you can see all the inter-textual evidence of other people living among the Lehites.

I wouldn't want you misinterpreting or assuming anything about whichever verses I will share.

 

[Watchmen]

Based on your comment I am assuming that you didn't actually read what I had posted.

There is no reason to assume that a long post cannot be simple or to the point. I just had a lot of examples to share.

I wanted to provide background information before answering your questions so that I could present the position given in the Book of Mormon as clearly as possible.

Please read my post so that you can see all the inter-textual evidence of other people living among the Lehites.

I wouldn't want you misinterpreting or assuming anything about whichever verses I will share.

I've read your post multiple times and would like direct answers to my direct questions. Can you provide scripture and verse organized by question, please?

 

[Prestor John]

Where in the Book of Mormon does it claim the Lamanites are among the ancestors of the American Indians?

“11 And it came to pass that the angel said unto me: Behold the wrath of God is upon the seed of thy brethren.
12 And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land.
13 And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters.
14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.” (1 Nephi 13:11-14)

“3 And he also spake unto them concerning the land of promise, which they had obtained—how merciful the Lord had been in warning us that we should flee out of the land of Jerusalem.
4 For, behold, said he, I have seen a vision, in which I know that Jerusalem is destroyed; and had we remained in Jerusalem we should also have perished.
5 But, said he, notwithstanding our afflictions, we have obtained a land of promise, a land which is choice above all other lands; a land which the Lord God hath covenanted with me should be a land for the inheritance of my seed. Yea, the Lord hath covenanted this land unto me, and to my children forever, and also all those who should be led out of other countries by the hand of the Lord.” (2 Nephi 1:3-5)

“3 And now, Joseph, my last-born, whom I have brought out of the wilderness of mine afflictions, may the Lord bless thee forever, for thy seed shall not utterly be destroyed.” (2 Nephi 3:3)

“18 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, thus saith our God: I will afflict thy seed by the hand of the Gentiles; nevertheless, I will soften the hearts of the Gentiles, that they shall be like unto a father to them; wherefore, the Gentiles shall be blessed and numbered among the house of Israel.
19 Wherefore, I will consecrate this land unto thy seed, and them who shall be numbered among thy seed, forever, for the land of their inheritance; for it is a choice land, saith God unto me, above all other lands, wherefore I will have all men that dwell thereon that they shall worship me, saith God.” (2 Nephi 10:18-19)

“14 And the Father hath commanded me that I should give unto you this land, for your inheritance.
15 And I say unto you, that if the Gentiles do not repent after the blessing which they shall receive, after they have scattered my people—
16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.” (3 Nephi 20:14-16)

“21 And it shall come to pass that I will establish my people, O house of Israel.
22 And behold, this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob; and it shall be a New Jerusalem. And the powers of heaven shall be in the midst of this people; yea, even I will be in the midst of you.” (3 Nephi 20:21-22)

“2 And behold, this is the thing which I will give unto you for a sign—for verily I say unto you that when these things which I declare unto you, and which I shall declare unto you hereafter of myself, and by the power of the Holy Ghost which shall be given unto you of the Father, shall be made known unto the Gentiles that they may know concerning this people who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, and concerning this my people who shall be scattered by them;
3 Verily, verily, I say unto you, when these things shall be made known unto them of the Father, and shall come forth of the Father, from them unto you;
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they should be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed, that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted with his people, O house of Israel;
5 Therefore, when these works and the works which shall be wrought among you hereafter shall come forth from the Gentiles, unto your seed which shall dwindle in unbelief because of iniquity;
6 For thus it behooveth the Father that it should come forth from the Gentiles, that he may show forth his power unto the Gentiles, for this cause that the Gentiles, if they will not harden their hearts, that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name and know of the true points of my doctrine, that they may be numbered among my people, O house of Israel;
7 And when these things come to pass that thy seed shall begin to know these things—it shall be a sign unto them, that they may know that the work of the Father hath already commenced unto the fulfilling of the covenant which he hath made unto the people who are of the house of Israel.” (3 Nephi 21:2-7)

“15 And also that the seed of this people may more fully believe his gospel, which shall go forth unto them from the Gentiles; for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.
16 For behold, the Spirit of the Lord hath already ceased to strive with their fathers; and they are without Christ and God in the world; and they are driven about as chaff before the wind.
17 They were once a delightsome people, and they had Christ for their shepherd; yea, they were led even by God the Father.
18 But now, behold, they are led about by Satan, even as chaff is driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her; and even as she is, so are they.
19 And behold, the Lord hath reserved their blessings, which they might have received in the land, for the Gentiles who shall possess the land.
20 But behold, it shall come to pass that they shall be driven and scattered by the Gentiles; and after they have been driven and scattered by the Gentiles, behold, then will the Lord remember the covenant which he made unto Abraham and unto all the house of Israel.” (Mormon 5:15-20)

“6 And that a New Jerusalem should be built up upon this land, unto the remnant of the seed of Joseph, for which things there has been a type.
7 For as Joseph brought his father down into the land of Egypt, even so he died there; wherefore, the Lord brought a remnant of the seed of Joseph out of the land of Jerusalem, that he might be merciful unto the seed of Joseph that they should perish not, even as he was merciful unto the father of Joseph that he should perish not.” (Ether 13:6-7)

 

[Prestor John]

Where in the Book of Mormon does it claim the Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians?

“13 And now, the thing which our father meaneth concerning the grafting in of the natural branches through the fulness of the Gentiles, is, that in the latter days, when our seed shall have dwindled in unbelief, yea, for the space of many years, and many generations after the Messiah shall be manifested in body unto the children of men, then shall the fulness of the gospel of the Messiah come unto the Gentiles, and from the Gentiles unto the remnant of our seed—
14 And at that day shall the remnant of our seed know that they are of the house of Israel, and that they are the covenant people of the Lord; and then shall they know and come to the knowledge of their forefathers, and also to the knowledge of the gospel of their Redeemer, which was ministered unto their fathers by him; wherefore, they shall come to the knowledge of their Redeemer and the very points of his doctrine, that they may know how to come unto him and be saved.
15 And then at that day will they not rejoice and give praise unto their everlasting God, their rock and their salvation? Yea, at that day, will they not receive the strength and nourishment from the true vine? Yea, will they not come unto the true fold of God?
16 Behold, I say unto you, Yea; they shall be remembered again among the house of Israel; they shall be grafted in, being a natural branch of the olive tree, into the true olive tree.
17 And this is what our father meaneth; and he meaneth that it will not come to pass until after they are scattered by the Gentiles; and he meaneth that it shall come by way of the Gentiles, that the Lord may show his power unto the Gentiles, for the very cause that he shall be rejected of the Jews, or of the house of Israel.
18 Wherefore, our father hath not spoken of our seed alone, but also of all the house of Israel, pointing to the covenant which should be fulfilled in the latter days; which covenant the Lord made to our father Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.” (1 Nephi 15:13-18)

“5 And also my soul delighteth in the covenants of the Lord which he hath made to our fathers; yea, my soul delighteth in his grace, and in his justice, and power, and mercy in the great and eternal plan of deliverance from death.” (2 Nephi 11:5)

“20 I am Mormon, and a pure descendant of Lehi. I have reason to bless my God and my Savior Jesus Christ, that he brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem, (and no one knew it save it were himself and those whom he brought out of that land) and that he hath given me and my people so much knowledge unto the salvation of our souls.
21 Surely he hath blessed the house of Jacob, and hath been merciful unto the seed of Joseph.
22 And insomuch as the children of Lehi have kept his commandments he hath blessed them and prospered them according to his word.
23 Yea, and surely shall he again bring a remnant of the seed of Joseph to the knowledge of the Lord their God.
24 And as surely as the Lord liveth, will he gather in from the four quarters of the earth all the remnant of the seed of Jacob, who are scattered abroad upon all the face of the earth.
25 And as he hath covenanted with all the house of Jacob, even so shall the covenant wherewith he hath covenanted with the house of Jacob be fulfilled in his own due time, unto the restoring all the house of Jacob unto the knowledge of the covenant that he hath covenanted with them.
26 And then shall they know their Redeemer, who is Jesus Christ, the Son of God; and then shall they be gathered in from the four quarters of the earth unto their own lands, from whence they have been dispersed; yea, as the Lord liveth so shall it be. Amen.” (3 Nephi 5:20-26)

“11 Ye remember that I spake unto you, and said that when the words of Isaiah should be fulfilled—behold they are written, ye have them before you, therefore search them—
12 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that when they shall be fulfilled then is the fulfilling of the covenant which the Father hath made unto his people, O house of Israel.
13 And then shall the remnants, which shall be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth, be gathered in from the east and from the west, and from the south and from the north; and they shall be brought to the knowledge of the Lord their God, who hath redeemed them.” (2 Nephi 20:11-13)

“17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.
18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor.
19 For I will make my people with whom the Father hath covenanted, yea, I will make thy horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass. And thou shalt beat in pieces many people; and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. And behold, I am he who doeth it.
20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles.” (3 Nephi 20:17-20)

“25 And behold, ye are the children of the prophets; and ye are of the house of Israel; and ye are of the covenant which the Father made with your fathers, saying unto Abraham: And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 The Father having raised me up unto you first, and sent me to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities; and this because ye are the children of the covenant—
27 And after that ye were blessed then fulfilleth the Father the covenant which he made with Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed—unto the pouring out of the Holy Ghost through me upon the Gentiles, which blessing upon the Gentiles shall make them mighty above all, unto the scattering of my people, O house of Israel.” (3 Nephi 20:25-27)

“29 And I will remember the covenant which I have made with my people; and I have covenanted with them that I would gather them together in mine own due time, that I would give unto them again the land of their fathers for their inheritance, which is the land of Jerusalem, which is the promised land unto them forever, saith the Father.” (3 Nephi 20:29)

 

[Watchmen]

Thanks, Prestor. I'll take a look.

 

[Prestor John]

Thanks, Prestor. I'll take a look.

No problem buddy. I'll be here if you have any questions. I can probably even find more examples if needed. Maybe.

 

[Watchmen]

No problem buddy. I'll be here if you have any questions. I can probably even find more examples if needed. Maybe.

I've read the verses. I agree the Book of Mormon teaches that those portrayed in the Book of Mormon were, at the very least, among the ancestors of Native Americans.

However, I do not believe the verses you posted support that the Book of Mormon people were the "principal" ancestors of the Native Americans. Putting aside for a moment our disagreement about what the word "principal" actually means, the verses cited merely reference God's covenant with His people - the verses in no way tie that to the Native Americans. Anyway, this is not a debate forum, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Prestor John]

I've read the verses. I agree the Book of Mormon teaches that those portrayed in the Book of Mormon were, at the very least, among the ancestors of Native Americans.

Correct.

However, I do not believe the verses you posted support that the Book of Mormon people were the "principal" ancestors of the Native Americans. Putting aside for a moment our disagreement about what the word "principal" actually means, the verses cited merely reference God's covenant with His people - the verses in no way tie that to the Native Americans. Anyway, this is not a debate forum, so I'll leave it at that.

I disagree.

The Book of Mormon clearly teaches that Lehi's descendants (to whom the covenants made to Abraham were extended) were to inhabit the "promised land" (the Americas), eventually dwindle in unbelief (Lamanites) and later be scattered by the Gentiles who would inherit the same "promised land" (European conquerors and settlers destroyed and displaced the various Native American populations).

3 Nephi 21 teaches that very clearly.

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

I remember something in the Book of Mormon about God changing the Lamanite's skin color. For those of you who believe that Lamanite ancestry is a significant part of Native American heritage (instead of just, like, 0.00001%), do you think God would have made other substantial changes to their genotype?

The lazy way to rationalize the Book of Mormon is to just suppose that God miraculously removed the "evidence" that it's false, but it's not exactly convincing.

 

[Watchmen]

I remember something in the Book of Mormon about God changing the Lamanite's skin color. For those of you who believe that Lamanite ancestry is a significant part of Native American heritage (instead of just, like, 0.00001%), do you think God would have made other substantial changes to their genotype?

The lazy way to rationalize the Book of Mormon is to just suppose that God miraculously removed the "evidence" that it's false, but it's not exactly convincing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Church's current official position is that the change had nothing to do with actual skin color.

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Church's current official position is that the change had nothing to do with actual skin color.

You're probably right, but I don't put much stock in what the current Church says. They seem to have that tendency to moderate their opinions when it becomes socially unacceptable to hold onto them.

 

[Watchmen]

You're probably right, but I don't put much stock in what the current Church says. They seem to have that tendency to moderate their opinions when it becomes socially unacceptable to hold onto them.

What makes you say that?