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Featured The cherry picking strategy

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Jul 26, 2021.

  1. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    How in heavens name am I going to research your definition of religion, or the definition that you hold as having value?

    Do you realize how silly your answer was?

    You dismiss others definitions of religion, so you must have some criteria, some benchmark upon which you make those judgements.

    What is your benchmark. What is @firedragon 's personal, gold standard definition of religion.
     
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  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    OK, no problem. I did not speak for you. I was stating my view in my reply to Firedragon.
     
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I have already given you the definition.

    I said do the research in reply to a particular segment of your post. Read your own post, and take what I say in context. dont be in too much of a hurry to reply saying "you are silly". Go back and read the post.

    Do the research.
     
  4. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am a retired person with time on my hand. Therefore, religious discussions keep me occupied and keep my grey cells working. As you know, I am a Hindu atheist. :)
    Repeating your words. Do your research. :D
     
    #84 Aupmanyav, Jul 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  5. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

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    Not in those words, but that's their basic message.
    Maybe there are atheists who are mystics but they're obviously not the kind that are on on these forums.
     
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Is that why you are being irrelevant?

    Please research how to be relevant and to not religiously practice religion bashing every little superficial opportunity you get.

    Have a good day.
     
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  7. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    An atheist???? That is also me.
     
  8. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    Here is the only definition that I see:

    "The word religion was used by the Roman Empire to not mean religion as defined in dictionaries. They used it as a soldiers binding to the state. Religare. It means a binding or a binding relationship."

    First, you have erroneously equated the word religare with the modern usage of the term religion. That the English word religion was originally derived from the word religare is not the same thing as saying they are equivalent and have the same definition. Words can change their meaning over time, and that clearly has occurred in this case.

    Secondly, nowhere do you say that you hold that the definition of religare, as used in ancient Roman Empire, as being your current working definition of the modern English term 'religion'. You have not claimed it as your definition of religion.

    If your definition of the modern English word 'religion' is "a binding or a binding relationship", then your definition neither comports with modern common usage of the term, nor with any technical definition.

    At least people can now put your use of the word in some context.
     
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  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You said you have not read those books. No problem. One can't read every book. But at least, take that information, and do a little bit of research on what its about.
     
  10. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    Well it is quite clear that you will not commit yourself to a definition of religion. :)

    This certainly gives you the latitude to call anything you want a 'religion'.
     
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  11. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    To be honest look at these 4:
    Google:
    religion
    1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
    • a particular system of faith and worship.
    Religion - Wikipedia Just read the first paragraph
    religion | Definition, Types, List of Religions, Symbols, Examples, & Facts Again just the first part
    What is Religion? For this one, you need to read down to: ...The more any phenomena displays the characteristics above, it is likely to be accepted as a religion. The fewer the features demonstrated, the less likely it will be termed a religion. It might be termed magic, or sorcery, cult or some other description but not as a full fledged religion."

    So what is a religion?
    Well, if you take the last one for it characteristics and go wide, then e.g. Objectivism by Ayn Rand, which is atheistic and philosophy as I remember it, when studying it, match all but one. And even the one it doesn't match, is still sort of there.
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Can you show me how I can call a finger a religion? Please explain.
     
  13. blü 2

    blü 2 Veteran Member
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    Ahm, it's not uncommon for those who have disorders of the mind to have spiritual experiences, and it's at least as possible for those who are usefully sane to have spiritual experiences ─ my point being that I can't think of any unbelievers I know who'd disagree with that.

    For example, my Buddhist friend tells me he has Buddhist friends who through practice can voluntarily enter ecstatic states virtually at will; whereas others may only stumble on them once or twice in a lifetime. (He himself can't do it, he says.)
    As i said, some are, some aren't ─ atheistwise, I'd say you were mixing with the wrong crowd.
     
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  14. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with getting a definition of religion from anyone. The variation in religions defies any useful definition. I have always proposed it is better say what a religion does for the believers or in other words how it is and adaptive trait. There are common features in many religions but a single definition is too elusive.
     
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  15. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    I believe in Thor - no clue who Bas is though. Thor visited recently lighting up the sky and with some rain to the plants. He has Mjöllnir - his amazing hammer too.

    "It would seem indeed as though the power of the thunder god, symbolized by his hammer, extended over all that had to do with the well-being of the community. It covered birth, marriage, and death, burial, and cremation ceremonies, weapons and feasting, travelling, land-taking, and the making of oaths between men. The famous weapon of Thor was not only the symbol of the destructive power of the storm, and of fire from heaven, but also a protection against the forces of evil and violence. Without it Asgard could no longer be guarded against the giants, and men relied on it also to give security and to support the rule of law."
    Ellis-Davidson, Hilda Roderick. 1964. Gods and Myths of Northern Europe. p. 81-82

    I hope this post will not be considered cherry picking (although I do like picking and eating cherries). Just trying to educate. Never to late to become pagan.
     
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  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    :) If the theists do not loose any opportunity to bash atheists, why should I, as an atheist? It has always been like that. The shaman will like to harm people who do not bring him gifts. But:

    "This means that an atheist who honestly believes that God does not exist and that religion is a human invention will not be punished for this." :D
    That is how I escape the wrath of Allah. I honestly believe the above. But certainly, I will be denied entry to heaven. I do not know where I will hang out after death.
    IslamQA: The fate of atheists in Islam | Hawramani.com Answers :(
     
    #96 Aupmanyav, Jul 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Irrelevant.
     
  18. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    People venerate those things, to the point where their devotion begins to look like worship. Not sure that makes the love of money* etc a religion though.


    *A frequently cherry picked quote from Saint Paul springs aptly to mind here. You know the one...
     
  19. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    It might be an interesting thread to start. I could come up with what I think is a useful definition, and then have everyone chime in and point out what I am missing. From there we can see if adjusting (or wholesale rewriting :) ) the verbiage can reconcile the problems and leave us with an adequate and useful definition of religion.

    I think we have a common sense understanding of what most easily fits into what is considered the category of religion. I think it would be about how bright we can draw the line between what can and cannot be considered religion.
     
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  20. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    We don't say it in those words because it has nothing to do with anything.

    Atheists lack belief in god(s). Kind of like how you reject/disbelieve in all gods except that one you believe in. You don't believe in Thor, right? I don't either.
     
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