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The changes in your society - good and bad?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mock Turtle, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    That is, the best and worst aspects that exist or have changed - as you see it.

    Whilst I have noticed some beneficial changes over the last several decades in my country, the UK, I have also seen some that I don't regard as being so, and would wish that many of these would just vanish, or be so much less - as I see such of course.

    The best bits for me are that we have become a more free and tolerant country, and more relaxed, so that relationships between most don't tend to create issues - whether that is attitudes towards any in the LGBT+ community (gay marriage for example), much less racism (mixed race partnerships, for example), exposure given to those with some impairment (Lost Voice Guy winning BGT, 2018), the supposed roles of males or females being demolished, religious beliefs not being that likely to create barriers (unless perhaps rigidly held), or in the relationships between children and teachers (not being so formal for example). People being glued to their mobile phones most of the time perhaps is a negative (slavery to such?), and this might change in the future, but as a youth and whenever I used public transport for any length of time I usually had a book to read, so not a lot of difference there. Corporal punishment, which I suffered quite a bit of as a child (but which didn't seem to affect me that much) has fortunately gone from our education system but we still allow smacking and other such within the home, unlike many other countries, so still a way to go yet. As we have towards getting rid of the noxious smoking habit.

    I don't like, and haven't enjoyed, the rise of 'celebrity for its own sake' that has come about via many TV shows and now more common, social media - mainly the reality TV shows (like TOWIE, Big Brother, and others) - and the influence such shows seem to have on many today. As if 'success' will be obtained as long as one is constantly in the news or has enough followers on some social media platform. And of course I don't like the wealth gap increasingly seen in the UK, as well as in many other countries, or the enormous salaries that many command in industry, and the same goes for the many 'celebrities' - which often seems to give them some sort of power - perhaps over those least likely to be of the thinking variety though.

    I'm sure many of my generation were affected by the stand off between the USA and the Soviet Union (via the MAD doctrine in force for many years), and the possibility of nuclear annihilation coming from such, so the fact that this hasn't come to pass (yet) has been something to celebrate. But then we do have other issues now which might be just as damaging. And even as I enjoyed the benefits of being in the EU - travelling quite a bit and seeing being a member as an overall benefit for the UK - I see Brexit as one of our dumbest decisions. The internet has been a boon for most of us (access to information, and social media, of course), together with some detrimental issues following along too, and even though many of us will value the benefits of internet shopping, there is the downside to this - the loss of much High Street shopping.

    Perhaps one of the worst aspects that has changed is the cost of education, which was free when I was at college (even if the grants were not exactly generous), whereas now it might be a bit of a gamble as to what subjects one takes if one cannot find decent employment after ending such. The advent of digital music has been a boon, especially since I was never a fan of vinyl (or most others), given the precariousness of the system and the care needed in order to keep such in good condition - if one might have been annoyed by the usual scratches and other damage almost inevitable on some treasured albums (and interfering with sound quality), which of course I was.

    The beneficial changes have been made despite the lessening of belief in religions, or their influence, so one can hardly point to religions as being responsible for all these.

    How do you see your particular country in which you live and the best/worst changes?


     
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  2. tarasan

    tarasan Well-Known Member

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    I feel there are definitely disadvantages as well, cancel culture is in full swing. Frig I tend to look around myself when I have a conversation about politics or social issues. I am not even that right leaning but the idea that u arnt allowed to be wrong anymore makes me very cautious. What's worse is that the left doesn't see it in themselves. I have been yelled down for say some silly things.

    An example was at the end of a random tangent that had me saying cuthullu was spraying someone with a milk while they said I'm dairy free.

    Now while this shows I'm a bit wierd it clearly caused concern with someone in my social circle who accused me of oppressing them as they had just turned vegan. They said that it had to be aimed at them.

    Of course it was a joke aimed at no one in particular but that is how the left operates now a days policing people in how they speak.
     
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  3. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    Well each generation might bring something a bit controversial to upset the previous owners of society, and we will see if the current aspects, as mentioned, do survive. Some are of course valid, but I wouldn't hazard a guess as yet.
     
  4. tarasan

    tarasan Well-Known Member

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    Mate I got a railing for asking why people have a basic human right to the internet. You can't even ask questions anymore. You can't even clarify anything with the left it's scary.
     
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  5. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    Well as always being a basically Lefty type I probably will have as much of an issue as yourself with expectations of the newer generations, but then I put that down to age and my irredeemable lack of ability to change - even if I think I have any such. :D
     
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  6. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    :shrug:
     
  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    How did that person become "the left" in your mind?
     
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  8. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    We humans are making progress socially world-wide, but to see it, you have to carefully compare the present to the distant past. Moreover, this progress would be graphed as a jagged line upward. You wouldn't see it if you lived during WW2 for example.
     
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  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    The disintegration of the nuclear family I think has had a very negative impact where nowadays there is no longer a viable one person income to support a family as it takes a two income household to make ends meet resulting in latchkey children with no proper guidance.

    Another thing is the incredible out of control greed by corporations and individuals that is a cancer on society resulting in sub par products and services and hideous income inequalities that are off the scale.


    On the plus side, I think we have made amazing strides in tech and medical knowledge that has made the general standard of living higher than in the past.

    Gamestop stock was a moment of genius.

    Race relations have definitely improved.

    Also it seems people are now aware of many issue's nowadays that may bring about changes for the better in correcting much of the grief people experience. In that respect I remain optimistic the pendulum may be swinging the other way and maybe experience a new Renaissance over the horizon.
     
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  10. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I was born in America in the early 1960s. At that time, it can be said that America was at its peak, relative to the rest of the world. We were tops in manufacturing, science, technology, education. Health insurance paid for entire medical bills; there was no such thing as co-pays or deductibles back then. Civil rights issues were also at the forefront, gaining traction and support among the people. Energy was cheap, and I recall many fond memories of our numerous road trips across the country.

    I also started to realize that the country was in a state of change, with the Civil Rights Movement, as well as the anti-war movement. I started to become more aware of political issues about that time, which intensified as the Watergate story broke. As a result, public cynicism and perceptions of political corruption became normal, everyday things for me, as that was what I grew up with.

    I remember the Energy Crisis of 1973-74, which compelled me to learn more about the world. I was asking my dad all kinds of questions as to why we were stuck in Maryland with no gas and couldn't get home (we lived in upstate NY back then). After that, there was a huge spike in fuel and energy costs, along with runaway inflation. I got a very distinct feeling, confirmed by many of the adults I knew at the time, that the "good old days" were behind us. The huge party that started after WW2 was starting to sputter to a halt by the 1970s - although I understand it was pretty fun during the 50s and 60s.

    Still, the general feeling was that we were progressing and making rapid advances in terms of civil rights, women's liberation, and even in foreign policy. Nixon was out, the unpopular war in Vietnam had ended, and we were even making progress in dealing with our Cold War adversaries, Russia and China. Despite concerns over economic malaise, along with concerns over energy and environmentalism, I still had a general feeling that America was heading in a better direction.

    A major turning point for me personally (and probably the nation as a whole) was when the Iranians attacked our embassy in Tehran and held our people hostage. I think that was the one single event which ruined America's path towards enlightenment and changed my views significantly.

    Watching them on TV every day, burning our flag, chanting "Death to America," and expressing utter hatred and disdain towards me and my countrymen (especially since we had ostensibly turned over a new leaf and were moving in a different, more enlightened direction), was difficult to comprehend. I didn't know why the Iranians were so angry with us, although I was told that it was because we had supported the Shah of Iran, who was a despot and a tyrant who tortured and murdered thousands of his own people. I wondered "Why would America, the supporter of freedom and democracy worldwide, support a dictator?" It was then that I learned that that wasn't the only time we supported dictatorships around the world.

    I also began to become more keenly aware of just how much America is hated around the world, whereas previously, I believed that America was the land of freedom, a beacon of hope for the world, and that everyone truly loved us. How little I knew. I knew about our past and many of the things that people might be angry at America over, but we improving and reproving - so I thought that latent anger over things America did generations ago was misplaced and misguided.

    I probably became a bit more vulnerable to the conservative way of thinking, since they could say things like "There, you see? We Americans bend over backwards to be nice to the people of the world, bringing them freedom and democracy, sending out billions in aid while our own people go hungry, and this is how they respond. They spit in our faces. Force is the only language they understand!"

    Carter seemed like an impotent weenie, allowing the Iranians to get away with what they were doing, while we did nothing about it. People wanted America's military to turn Iran into a parking lot. The slogans of "give peace a chance" and "all you need is love," which reverberated across America a decade earlier, were falling on deaf ears by that time. It was time for new leadership in America, and that's what propelled Ronald Reagan into office. It wasn't just because of foreign policy, though. The 70s saw a massive increase in crime, urban decay, and social rot across the country, and many Christians saw America becoming like Sodom and Gomorrah.

    The liberals were seen not only as too soft on the rest of the world (which is why Carter was so impotent regarding Iran and also why we failed to achieve victory in Vietnam), but they were also seen as too soft on crime and far too permissive when it came to abortion, cohabitation, fornication, etc. Reagan and his "Moral Majority" were a force to be reckoned with. There was also a resurgence in militarism, another Red Scare, and a reversal of détente which dominated the 1970s, propelling us into a new level of Cold War.

    Ironically, Reagan never did anything to punish or retaliate against Iran over their attack on our embassy and their blatant anti-American attitudes. Instead, Reagan focused more on the Soviet Union, particularly regarding their attack on Afghanistan at the time. Reagan also focused a great deal on Central America, particularly Nicaragua and El Salvador. Then there was Grenada and Lebanon.

    I was in college at the time, studying more about the Cold War, focusing specifically on Russian and Soviet history - because I wanted to learn more about what was actually going on. I realized that the Russians were nice, ordinary people, just like us. They weren't the "evil empire" or the "devils with horns" that Reagan and his ilk were making them out to be. Even their government had reformed considerably since Stalin's death, but apparently, Reagan was unaware that Stalin had died and that the Soviet Union had changed.

    Reagan ostensibly thought he was still in the 1950s. Reagan was a complete fool, but what I couldn't understand is why so many people loved him and followed him. He was known as the Teflon President. Even people who I had previously thought to be liberal - even they liked Reagan. It's almost as if the peace marches and the liberal antagonism towards militarism had never happened. Then there was his unabashedly pro-capitalist economic philosophy, which liberals should have challenged more fervently but didn't. Meanwhile, conservatives were becoming more and more brazen and loud, such as the brief popularity enjoyed by Morton Downey Jr. (whose show was quite a trip), and a little-known DJ known as Rush Limbaugh made the move into talk radio. This was also when Trump was starting to become a household word, as he was also riding on the same wave of ultra-conservatism which was gripping the country.

    Even the liberals seemed distracted by the consumerism and hedonism of the 80s to the point where they became a non-factor in politics. Mondale in '84 and Dukakis in '88 probably signify the nadir of liberal influence in America.

    This was the point in my life where I had grown so cynical about politics that I had all but lost complete faith in the system. But not just the system, I was growing disappointed by the populace in general, particularly the liberals which I had grown up with and respected. It's like they either gave up or sold out. For me, the Clintons symbolized just how far awry the liberals had gone. In their youth, the Clintons were supposedly anti-war marchers and fighters of the good fight, but then they became Reaganite capitalists and warmongers by the time they reached power. When Clinton told Jerry Brown that he was "unfit to be on the same platform as Hillary," that was the absolute last straw for me. The Democrats' wholesale rejection of people like Jerry Brown, Ralph Nader, Jesse Jackson, Gary Hart, and others were further indications that they had sold out and gone into some kind of la-la land.

    By that time, I noticed America was no longer tops in the world, as we were when I was born. We had declined considerably and were continuing to decline up until the present day.
     
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  11. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    I think Brexit is a good thing and the resurgence of the primacy of the nationstate is a good thing.

    I am saddened by the obliteration of traditional values, the nuclear family, lack of religion, lack of emphasis on social skills and moral development in schools. I dislike the fact that nowadays everything is all about technological advancement and knowledge, when I think we really should be concentrating how to be better folks, how to be more virtuous and kind. I appreciate gender roles, religious ritual and hierachy, but those things are gone and life feels void.
     
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  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    OK, Im far Left and I have never heard that one.
    Its not people on the Left who are your problem. You apparently associate with nuts.
     
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  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I am curious about the decline of the nuclear family being seen as a bad thing. I'm curious as to why? It hasn't been around that long, amd hopefully with it going we can move back to actual models of family that includes family, does away with this silly "extended family," and brings back our connections rather than breaking them up and expecting that people go away.
     
  14. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I found myself not attached to a culture. Culture IMO is not something anyone can control. It flows as it flows and I'm happy to flow with it.

    Life is in constant change. Seems silly to define a particular period as this culture or that culture. Whatever is, is continually changing to something else.

    I think there is a value in simple human decency that transcends culture.
     
  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I don't like how a group of Liberals have became basically indistinguishable from RW Fundamentalist Evangelicals. Original sins, dirty thoughts, lots of shame and guilt, and no free speech.
    Being gay isn't a serious accusation anymore. Things have improved for trans people, in some places. This hasn't been "equal progress across the board."
    Music and movies largely suck now.
    Recycling and concerns for the Earth have increased.
    Cell phones and computers have appeared everywhere. The world went online.

     
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  16. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    It was not possible to ignore all the politics going on and associated stuff but I wasn't that interested I must admit, so there won't be any substantial comments from me about such, just that I haven't really deviated from a more Socialist perspective. But as yourself, I did come to recognise why my own country might not be looked upon so favourably when one has an understanding of our past as a colonial power, even if so many other nations are also in the same position.
     
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  17. The Hammer

    The Hammer White Wolf - kvite ulfh
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    I was going to ask the same thing, the "traditional nuclear family" is archaic, in terms of not necessary in today's world/Culture (not in the west at least).

    I see us moving backwards towards looser arrangements, between what close family may be nearer us, and friends as being the new family units. This isn't a bad thing, there are other forms, and was how it was the majority of our societies existence. The speed and spread of both people and information, make the traditional family structure irrelevant.
     
  18. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Traditional families often includes close proximity to aunts and uncles, cousins, amd multiple generations. This idea of "parents and kids and then parents in an empty house" is bizarre, and this increasing push to isolate us and break our traditional bonds, in my opinion, does play a strong role in the breakdown of society, amd that is for all our harping about family we let others decide who that is for us to the point our family gets labeled as "extended family" amd we don't even get time off from work to mourn and grieve their passing. To me, the "nuclear family" as a family model is criminally anti-family.
     
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  19. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Politics was always the main subject of conversation at every family gathering, so it was impossible for me to ignore any of it.
     
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  20. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
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    As a youth, it seems I was more drawn to philosophy and psychology, probably in attempts to try to understand myself, and I don't recall conversations in our house rising above the mundane for much of the time - but then I left when I was 19. :D
     
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