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Featured The Catholics venerate the Virgin Mary and "saints" a lot.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Jonathan Bailey, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    What does the Holy Bible (King James Version) say about saints and the "making of saints"?

    What is the Protestant take on "sainthood"?

    I know the Protestants don't say "Virgin Mary" nearly as much as they say "'God", "Jesus Christ" and "Holy Ghost". It seems as on Catholic radio, I hear MARY more than CHRIST.
     
  2. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    I finally figured out what direction I should go, when I studied the revelations of the Baha'i faith
    I believe the Catholic Church puts the Church before the Bible and sees the Bible as evidence before their Church, seeing themselves as the true woman (church) of God spoken of in Revelation. But I could be wrong.
     
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  3. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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  4. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    The Bible doesn't mention the Trinity, either.
     
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  5. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    I think its fair to say that Luther, remember him, the founder of the Reformation, would not recognize today's Protestant churches.


    Whoever is weak in faith can utter no Hail Mary without danger to his salvation. (Sermon, March 11, 1523).Who possess a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger! Our prayer should include the Mother of God.. .What the Hail Mary says is that all glory should be given to God, using these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ. Amen!" You see that these words are not concerned with prayer but purely with giving praise and honor.. .We can use the Hail Mary as a meditation in which we recite what grace God has given her. Second, we should add a wish that everyone may know and respect her...He who has no faith is advised to refrain from saying the Hail Mary. (Personal Prayer Book, 1522).
     
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  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It's an interpretation of a lengthy series of verses, and most Christian denominations also believe that it's correct.

    As for me, I think it's an attempt to explain the relationship between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
     
  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The NT reflects the beginning and teachings within the Church that came through the apostles from Jesus, so the Church and the Bible really cannot be divided and compared as to which is more important.
     
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  8. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    No - the RCC believes that its Sacred Tradition and the Bible are of equal authority.
     
  9. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    "What does the Holy Bible (King James Version) say"
    Nothing it doesnt have lips.

    If you insist on being an object animist then please pick something more realistic that appears it might speak. Oh and atheists, i will toss you and your interpretations of science under that same bus while i am at it. Just another book or golden calf thats all. How would you both, atheists, and you believers, even be able to function without your books? Realistically, or die is how. Hey just like every other life form on this planet except you.
    might try it some time.

    images (37).jpeg images (37).jpeg
     
  10. AT-AT

    AT-AT Well-Known Member

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    I'll try to give a benefit of a doubt.
     
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  11. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    I understand that. My point was that there are many generally accepted elements of Christianity that aren't explicitly in the Bible.
     
  12. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    I don't know though;

    'He notes that by 1522, Luther "becomes more cautious about the Hail Mary" (p. 184). In a sermon on the Feast of the Annunciation, Luther says the Hail Mary is "no prayer... we cannot make out of the Hail Mary either a prayer or invocation, for it does not seem right to us that we should give these words a wider meaning than the Holy spirit Himself has given."'

    Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther: "Whoever possesses a good (firm) faith, says the Hail Mary without danger!"

    The entire article is long and interesting. If it has any basis in it... It's a bad bad problem you got.
     
  13. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    While I was a practicing United Methodist many years ago, no Hail Mary was ever taught, mentioned or spoken in church or at bible studies. The church never once uttered the term 'saint' and I can never recall seeing the word even written in scripture. I've attended a few other Protestant churches over the years. The mother of Jesus Christ miraculously maintained her virginity through the conception and birth of Our Lord is what the gospels teach and is what the Protestants believe. No special honor or devotion was ever given to this woman. Mary knew not an earthly man in the flesh but rather God Himself. Hence Jesus Christ is the only BEGOTTEN son of God. God's, not man's, sperm is in Jesus.
     
  14. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    Very miraculously, and not in the least bit credible.
     
  15. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Its only a problem for those who assume they know what the Church teaches and confuses what is the official church, the actual doctrine, with what is a personal piety practiced in differing cultures.
     
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Which is what we should expect with any organization through many years. Jesus said he would guide the Church until the end of times, and a static organization wouldn't need any guiding. Thus the significance of Pentecost.

    BTW, just a reminder that it is the Church that chose the canon of the Bible and not the other way around.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Luke 1[41] And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit
    [42] and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!


    A substitute for the word "blessed" is "special".
     
  18. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    So there is a biblical basis for at least part of the rosary.

    I don't know where the Hail Mary and Mother of God parts come in the Good Book though or of our asking her to pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

    Still, churches are CHRISTIAN (following Christ) , not MARIAN (following Mary) and not TRIUNE (of a three-person godhead).
     
    #18 Jonathan Bailey, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  19. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    It is more accurate to state a virginal conception but not a virginal birth as that would indicate the hymen remained in tact. Tertullian coined the phrase, 'Virgo quantum a virgo, non virgo fquantum a partu (virgin in terms of a husband, not virgin in terms of giving birth.'

    Wouldn't that imply a 'physical' begetting?
     
  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Got it-- sorry I misinterpreted what you were saying.
     
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