The Capacity for Embarassment.

[Altfish]

It's pretty well known, by now, that children at about 3 years old or more, can feel shame and embarassment.

I just watched Donald Trump address CPAC, and the question that I am left with is really, really simple: is that not true for today's Republicans? I watched them applaud, and I saw nobody blush, not when the worst lies and most outrageous statements were made.

I can say this with almost certainty -- if he were Canadian, and tried it here, the very few listeners who didn't wander off during the speech would have laughed him out of the hall.

I think it is the modus operandi of Right Wing parties. In the UK Johnson's Tory party and its followers are just the same.
If they say Black is White, their fans cheers and blame fake news for saying it isn't.

 

[PureX]

Someday the humans species will finally figure out that the people who most want to be given the authority to act on their behalf are exactly the people who should never be given that authority. And therefor, will create a new system for finding those who are to be given that authority.

It's a fundamental law of political power that the more one wants it, the more likely they will be to abuse it when they get it. We need people who are reluctantly willing to serve, not people who want it so bad that they'll do anything to get it and keep it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Video and text of the speech for those (like me) who missed it: WATCH: Former President Trump Addresses CPAC (c-span.org)

I am very happy to have missed it
neither will I watch the link.
I do not want to be ill today.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Someday the humans species will finally figure out that the people who most want to be given the authority to act on their behalf are exactly the people who should never be given that authority. And therefor, will create a new system for finding those who are to be given that authority.

It's a fundamental law of political power that the more one wants it, the more likely they will be to abuse it when they get it. We need people who are reluctantly willing to serve, not people who want it so bad that they'll do anything to get it and keep it.

Then perhaps we should co-opt our leaders. from those who do not want the job.

 

[exchemist]

I think it is the modus operandi of Right Wing parties. In the UK Johnson's Tory party and its followers are just the same.
If they say Black is White, their fans cheers and blame fake news for saying it isn't.

I suspect it is not confined to the political right, but a feature of tribal politics in general. Think of Corbyn and Momentum, perhaps? And it was not true of the Conservative party a decade ago.

My fear is that the tribalisation of politics is amplified by internet social media, through (i) the dominance of facile, soundbite-sized communication, by often poorly informed people, and (ii) the inbuilt tendency for search engines to direct viewers towards the most provocative content. The latter is something that some social media companies seem to be waking up to - too late.

 

[exchemist]

Someday the humans species will finally figure out that the people who most want to be given the authority to act on their behalf are exactly the people who should never be given that authority. And therefor, will create a new system for finding those who are to be given that authority.

It's a fundamental law of political power that the more one wants it, the more likely they will be to abuse it when they get it. We need people who are reluctantly willing to serve, not people who want it so bad that they'll do anything to get it and keep it.

That's why it is so important to have limited terms for politicians and mechanisms, responsive to the people, to "throw the ******** out".

 

[Altfish]

I suspect it is not confined to the political right, but a feature of tribal politics in general. Think of Corbyn and Momentum, perhaps? And it was not true of the Conservative party a decade ago.

My fear is that the tribalisation of politics is amplified by internet social media, through (i) the dominance of facile, soundbite-sized communication, by often poorly informed people, and (ii) the inbuilt tendency for search engines to direct viewers towards the most provocative content. The latter is something that some social media companies seem to be waking up to - too late.

You might not have agreed with Corbyn and Momentum but I don't recall them lying.
Tribalisation is working for the right - start with racism, add patriotism (It is not really), add some xenophobia, bring in communism and you have the basis of a majority party

 

[exchemist]

You might not have agreed with Corbyn and Momentum but I don't recall them lying.
Tribalisation is working for the right - start with racism, add patriotism (It is not really), add some xenophobia, bring in communism and you have the basis of a majority party

Corbyn certainly did. Remember that farce about sitting in the corridor of the train? And his supposed support for remaining in the EU? And the business about antisemitism in the party?

But it's true that that the real Big Lies in present times have come from the political right. Tribalism however is equally present on the left, at least in the UK.

 

[Altfish]

Corbyn certainly did. Remember that farce about sitting in the corridor of the train? And his supposed support for remaining in the EU? And the business about antisemitism in the party?

But it's true that that the real Big Lies in present times have come from the political right. Tribalism however is equally present on the left, at least in the UK.

Were those lies?
I can't stand Corbyn but he did sit in a corridor on a train (maybe it was spun to be more significant than it was); he did support his party line (reluctantly) on Brexit; to this day he believes he did no wrong on antisemitism.

 

[Colt]

The Left in America is experiencing pent up "blow-back" in the person of Donald Trump and his supporters. We aren't hoping for the Lefts good opinion of us and we certainly aren't wondering what Canadians think!

Years of impugning the values of Christians and anyone slightly conservative in every form of media pop culture has created people who just don't care anymore.

 

[Nakosis]

It's how things have always been, & always will be.
So it's normal. Who's frightened normal, eh.

I might be frightened if I hadn't been through this many, many times.

I suppose if nothing else, Trump exposed the insanity of US politics to the rest of the world.

I don't think we are the only one but we may be the only one of note this decade.

 

[Mock Turtle]

https://phys.org/news/2021-03-country.html

According to polling data, Americans don't like the incivility that has become standard practice in the public square and regard it as a serious erosion of values. Both parties want a president to focus on the needs of the people, even if that means disappointing supporters. "I think that political polarization is the driving problem of the 21st century because we can't mobilize resources to solve things like climate change and deal with a pandemic with just 49% or 51% support," says Mark Schroeder, professor of philosophy and founder of the Conceptual Foundations of Conflict Project at the USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences.

Which party was the one being so intransigent, and who called the others cheats?

Rini's first tip for those wishing to improve the national dialog? Delete social media apps from your phone and force yourself to use social media in a web browser instead. At the very least, turn off notifications from news and social media apps. This can help prevent knee-jerk, emotional reactions to news stories, comments and posts, she says. The effort of simply having to remember your password each time you want to engage may prevent you from picking another fight with that cousin you disagree with on Facebook. When you do debate online, Rini recommends one mental heuristic: "Imagine you're having this conversation in front of a 10-year-old and they are learning how to behave from you. If the other person you're debating is behaving terribly, model how you want a 10-year-old to see someone respond to a terrible person. This might not mean just acceding or saying, "Oh, that's fine, you can say horrible things about me." It might mean walking away."

Doesn't help when you have someone exhibiting the behaviour of a naughty 10-year-old as president.

https://www.webershandwick.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Civility_2010_SocialMediaImplications.pdf

 

[PureX]

That's why it is so important to have limited terms for politicians and mechanisms, responsive to the people, to "throw the ******** out".

That's not enough, clearly. I think the function of government representatives needs to be spelled out far more precisely, and then enforced.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It's how things have always been, & always will be.
So it's normal. Who's frightened normal, eh.

Can we please stop pretending this is normal?

It's not normal. Not at all. It's absurd.

 

[pearl]

I’ve seen some...interesting interpretations of the Bible. But to have a literal golden idol? This is all beyond parody from my eyes. Like bruh!

They forgot the 'halo'.

However my fear, as opposed to my hope, is that the party will try to have it both ways, by selecting someone else from the Trump dynasty, to follow a similar populist path without the worst of the abrasiveness and insanity of Trump himself.

Much depends on whether the Dems have the intestinal fortitude to support local candidates.

 

[exchemist]

https://phys.org/news/2021-03-country.html

According to polling data, Americans don't like the incivility that has become standard practice in the public square and regard it as a serious erosion of values. Both parties want a president to focus on the needs of the people, even if that means disappointing supporters. "I think that political polarization is the driving problem of the 21st century because we can't mobilize resources to solve things like climate change and deal with a pandemic with just 49% or 51% support," says Mark Schroeder, professor of philosophy and founder of the Conceptual Foundations of Conflict Project at the USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences.

Which party was the one being so intransigent, and who called the others cheats?

Rini's first tip for those wishing to improve the national dialog? Delete social media apps from your phone and force yourself to use social media in a web browser instead. At the very least, turn off notifications from news and social media apps. This can help prevent knee-jerk, emotional reactions to news stories, comments and posts, she says. The effort of simply having to remember your password each time you want to engage may prevent you from picking another fight with that cousin you disagree with on Facebook. When you do debate online, Rini recommends one mental heuristic: "Imagine you're having this conversation in front of a 10-year-old and they are learning how to behave from you. If the other person you're debating is behaving terribly, model how you want a 10-year-old to see someone respond to a terrible person. This might not mean just acceding or saying, "Oh, that's fine, you can say horrible things about me." It might mean walking away."

Doesn't help when you have someone exhibiting the behaviour of a naughty 10-year-old as president.

https://www.webershandwick.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Civility_2010_SocialMediaImplications.pdf

Yes this is exactly the sort of dynamic I had in mind in post 25. The trouble is that an exhortation from this person for people to change their behaviour is most unlikely to have any impact.

This is partly because, as Murdoch astutely realised a few decades ago, people quite like to see their politics as entertainment: a show in which custard pies are exchanged, to roars of nasty laughter. And having an angry argument, in which someone can be made to look a fool, or in which you can (anonymously) be as rude as you like, quite appeals to a lot of people. It's like the Roman circuses or gladiatorial arena: nothing is so much fun as to watch someone being wounded or destroyed.

There is this disconnect between seeing politics as a game show and politics as something vital that affects all our lives. People are aware at some level that politics matters, but the game show element tends to dominate their reactions, day to day. In the old days of newspapers and broadcast media, that was fine, because all people did was have their rude and incoherent arguments in the pub, while reading and hearing a more grown-up version of the issues every day in the news. So when they came to vote, they did have at least some decent information, and maybe a rationale from some newspaper editor, to go on. But now, as Trump has realised, these grown-up sources of information can be bypassed entirely, and many people get all their political information from self-reinforcing groups, or from angry on-line debates.....or from tasty looking soundbites from politicians trying to stir things up.

 

[icehorse]

The Left in America is experiencing pent up "blow-back" in the person of Donald Trump and his supporters. We aren't hoping for the Lefts good opinion of us and we certainly aren't wondering what Canadians think!

Years of impugning the values of Christians and anyone slightly conservative in every form of media pop culture has created people who just don't care anymore.

Can you cite some specific examples of Christian values being impugned?

 

[icehorse]

Something involving sociopaths always happens that's
different from before. Nixon was the first Watergate &
pardon by his Veep. Burr & Hamilton had their duel.
It's always sumthin. Always will be.

In the past you've gotten cranky when I call you out for making false equivalences. But your crankiness doesn't somehow mean you won't be called out again

Your false equivalences are damaging.

 

[Revoltingest]

I might be frightened if I hadn't been through this many, many times.

I suppose if nothing else, Trump exposed the insanity of US politics to the rest of the world.

I don't think we are the only one but we may be the only one of note this decade.

I've seen continual insanity.
The last 4 years haven't even been the worst.

 

[metis]

I just watched Donald Trump address CPAC,

You are truly masochistic. Maybe you should have that looked at.