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Featured The Brilliance of Pascal's Wager

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Today I realized that Pascal's Wager is truly a brilliant argument, and because of it, I have now decided to believe that Cthulhu exists. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the god Cthulhu, he is a powerful deity that resembles a human/octupus/dragon hybrid. His head contains a large number of tentacles surrounding his giant mouth. There are many religions around the world dedicated to his worship, including the official religion, Cthulhu's Witnesses. You can learn about him in the holy scriptures, "The Call of Cthulhu" as well as the song "Space Lord" by Monster Magnet which describes him as having been stuffed in your pocket for the last hundred days, and when he doesn't get his bath, he takes it out on the slaves. He commands you to "polish them rockets and swallow those pills and say 'Oh, Space Lord Mother****er **mod edit**.' He left his throne a million miles away, he drinks from your *** **mod edit**, and sings the blues every day

    Anyway, obviously, this deity has tremendous power and fearsome strength. Believing in him is clearly the safe thing to do. If he doesn't exist and I believe in him and act as if he exists, I lose nothing. But, if I don't believe in him and it turns out he exists, he might punish me with his powerful tentacles and eat me, or perhaps send me to hell. The consequences of disbelief in Cthulhu could be infinitely bad, and there is at least a possibility that he exists. Thus, belief in Cthulhu is clearly rational.

     
    #1 Hubert Farnsworth, Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2020
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  2. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I could never get all the fancy names.

    Just call him Bob.
     
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  3. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    In my case I found out allah will try to
    hang me by my hair in eternal fire coz
    I wont cover my hair.

    Let him try, I will kick his knee.
     
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  4. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    It is not brilliant, it is a false dichotomy.

    It basically says that if Christians are right you go to heaven; if Christians are wrong then you've lost nothing. So why not be a Christian there's nothing to lose
    But it ignores the thousands of other gods that may exist.

    It also assumes that Christianity costs you nothing ... but it does - praying, devotion, attending church, tithing, etc is all wasted

    It also assumes that you can choose to believe; so that then leads to your god not recognising false belief and being silly enough to buy into your phony belief


     
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  5. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I can imagine all the Christians now kicking themselves once they find out that it is Cthulhu who actually exists.

    They should have been on the safe side. Now they must face the wrath of Cthulhu.
     
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  6. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Whooosh!
     
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  7. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I know. I fear for them on the Day of Judgment.
     
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  8. Galateasdream

    Galateasdream Active Member

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    I think the key issue with the wager is that it is predicated upon the idea that you can choose what to believe. And whilst I think the will has a role to play in how we end up forming our paradigms, I don't think we can just choose what to believe or not.

    However, might the wager make a case for encouraging us to at least give religions an open minded investigation? Sort of like saying, check this out - if you agree with it then you get mega benefit, if it's not your cup of tea you've only lost a little time and effort? That seems a fair trade off, giving up maybe a few hours of thought, reading and chat on the off chance of 'winning' eternal bliss.

    Also, might it also work in situations of fine balance - where the likelihood of two options seems about 50/50? So that the balanced agnostic who thinks theism and atheism are equally as likely might choose to favour theism as offering the greater cost-benefit ratio over atheism.

    Maybe it can be thought of in terms of a willingness to favour cosmic optimism when faced with finely balanced uncertainties. If I'm genuinely split between two options that seem roughly equally plausible, but one is a far more optimistic and happy paradigm, then it seems I should lean that way as much as my will allows.
     
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  9. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    The 'Lunatic, Liar, Lord' argument put forward leaves out other possibilities. How about this one: Legend.

    Only those who accept the Bible as true and inerrant believe that Jesus actually said all the he is supposed to have said.

    You also seem to reject the possibility of 'lunatic.' Why?
     
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  10. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    It is usually just lunatic or liar.
    Including "lord" would be a departure from
    the usual strict either / of binary thinking of
    fundamentalist thinking.
     
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  11. The Hammer

    The Hammer Well-Known Member

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    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
     
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  12. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

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    and depending on the sect/cult you get involved in, required groupthink, required political allegiance*, required social beliefs/practices, distancing yourself from friends and family, etc...

    *Had neighbors many years ago that were hardcore fundies. Hardcore rightwing Republican-only fundies. We actually got along pretty well, strangely enough. Their parents all but demanded that they vote GOP at every election = they were very intrusive about it, almost psychotic. The wife's dad used to call her ever election day to 'remind her who to vote for.' The wife of the couple told us that one time she talked about not voting for a republican candidate and her father said something like 'If you ever want to set foot in this house again, you will forget you even thought about it'. The thing that really told me how sick these people were - on our neighbors' kid's 5th birthday, one of the grandparents got her a GOP elephant-head coffer mug so she "would know who to vote for"... A 5 year old...

    *Unsurprisingly, my wife reconnected with the wife of that couple via FB a couple of years ago. The husband (who had been attending Baptist Seminary when we knew them) had an affair with the 15-year old friend of their daughter, and filed for divorce. The daughter actually sided with the cheating dad. Both families blamed the wife, even though the Baptist minister husband had the affair. The daughter later had a child out of wedlock at 16.
    All still vote GOP.....
     
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  13. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Why does politics have to pollute EVERY ****ing thread on this forum?>>
     
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  14. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    I don't agree with the Cthulhu worship. He's (It's? She's?) clearly limited. The FSM will hug me in her/his/its noodly tendrils and we'll soar over the futility grasping Cthulhu always keeping away from her/its/his grasp.
     
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  15. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I like the video, very clear and nicely done.

    There are more options though:
    *) "Fake it till you make it" principle. When you are 10 years old, you can't believe you will be able to fly an airplane. But you have Faith, that, when you study you will get your degree. During the 10 years of study, you get confirmations that you are on the right track (passing exams). But only when you pass your final exam, you will really know how to fly the plane.

    Same with spiritual life. You start in Faith. On the road you get Spiritual experiences. When enlightened you will really know.
     
  16. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    The FSM is just Cthulhu in disguise. Look at 'em, don't you see the tentacles?
     
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  17. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    No, heretic, if it's true, it's the other way around.
     
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  18. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Cthulhu doesn't care about your false dichotomy or Christians and atheist or who is right and who is wrong. In the end Cthulhu is 100% non-discriminatory, discriminate being something he proudly never does, as he'll devour the souls of princes and paupers, male and female, white and black, young and old, abled body and infirm, he devours them all the same.
     
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  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Or even more importantly, one of these options enables me while the other option does not. Why close oneself off to positive possibilities based on a lack of knowledge? Why not take advantage of those possibilities so long as they remain possible? If choosing to trust in the existence of a benevolent deity helps a person to move forward in a positive way in their life, why reject that positive possibility based on "lack of proof"? That makes no sense to me. Lack of proof does not render a possibility impossible. So why not use that possibility to our advantage so long as it's there?
     
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  20. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    :tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink::tonguewink:

    I feel the same way about the flying spaghetti monster
     
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