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The Book of Mormon
- Thread starter Corban
- Start date
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I've read MOST of the B of M. I couldn't ever get through all of it, no matter how hard I tried... and I tried a LOT as a mormon.
But it does make some good points on morality and whatnot... but then any religious book does that. (would be silly to have a religous book that didn't)
wa:do
But it does make some good points on morality and whatnot... but then any religious book does that. (would be silly to have a religous book that didn't)
wa:do
I think those that read it with a sincere desire to test its authenticity can't help bu take it seriously. There are many, many interesting things that one can't help but take notice. Chiasmus; four and eight part construction; the many archeological and anthropological finds that corroborate previously unheard of theories; the doctrinal expositions on evil, atonement and our relationship with the Lord. It stands the test of time and any other test thrown at it. The only thing that people can do to raise any doubts about it these days is attack the credibility of those involved with its publication, because the book itself is impregnable.
Scott1
Well-Known Member
I have read the BM and the D&C of the LDS....... pretty good reading..... a lot of the BM mirrors the Christian Bible....
I can't say I believe a word of it, and I have a hard time believing the story of it's originination, but the members I have met seem like wonderful people.... that's the true test for me if God is involved, but what do I know!!!
Peace,
Scott
I can't say I believe a word of it, and I have a hard time believing the story of it's originination, but the members I have met seem like wonderful people.... that's the true test for me if God is involved, but what do I know!!!
Peace,
Scott
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
Has anyone seen the episode of South Park where it talks about the Book of Mormon?...Just wondering.
I've read a little of it...like PW said, it has some good ideas going on, but other than that, I'd sooner recommend Lord of the Rings.
I've read a little of it...like PW said, it has some good ideas going on, but other than that, I'd sooner recommend Lord of the Rings.
The Creators of South Park are both excommunicated Mormons. That's what I heard living in Boulder, Colorado, where they're from. I didn't know what a Mormon was, but it's funny how Joseph Smith was one of the main characters in one episode. They're pretty clever with the whole shtick.
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
I haven't read the Book of Mormon. I must say though that every Mormon I have met is a wonderful person. They are very caring and have good moral values. I have a Mormon friend. She believes that she originated in heaven, was chosen by God, and sent to Earth. She believes she will return to God. Is this part of the Book of Mormon or is this her particular belief?
dolly
Member
I find it the opposite.
Yes there is, but not for the benefit of the religion.
With the Book of Mormon? Please. There isn't the slightest bit of archealogical evidence for those societies existing. If there is, please show it to me.
No, the BoM doesn't. It falls apart at the seams.
1) no evidence of the Lamanites and Nephites civilizations, people, cities, etc.
2) no unquestionable, accepted evidence of "reformed Egyptian" existing
3) some parts of the Book of Mormon contradict Mormon beliefs
4) the BoM quotes from the King James Bible that wasn't written 1200 years + after the original copy of the BoM was supposedly written
5) It has translation errors from the King James Bible in it.
6) Most of the doctrines of Mormonism aren't from the BoM, but from another text (Doctrine and Covenants), but that contradicts the D&C.
7) etc
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
This is a good point, Lightkeeper. In the South Park episode, even though they bash Mormonism to no end, the final consensus is that if it helps you to be a better person, then it's good enough!....dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb!
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
my biggest problem with the BoM is that it is very racist, or at least extermely bigoted.
Nephi-
12:23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.
2 Nephi
[5:23] And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
[5:24] And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey
oh but if we become Mormons we will eventually become white people. The church changed the words in this one from 'pure and white' to 'pure and delightsome'
[30:6] And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and delightsome people.
Enos
[20] And I bear record that the people of Nephi did seek diligently to restore the Lamanites unto the true faith in God. But our labors were vain; their hatred was fixed, and they were led by their evil nature that they became wild, and ferocious, and a bloodthirsty people, full of idolatry and filthiness; feeding upon beasts of prey; dwelling in tents, and wandering about in the wilderness with a short skin girdle about their loins and their heads shaven; and their skill was in the bow, and in the cimeter, and the ax. And many of them did eat nothing save it was raw meat; and they were continually seeking to destroy us.
Alma
[17:14] And assuredly it was great, for they had undertaken to preach the word of God to a wild and a hardened and a ferocious people; a people who delighted in murdering the Nephites, and robbing and plundering them; and their hearts were set upon riches, or upon gold and silver, and precious stones; yet they sought to obtain these things by murdering and plundering, that they might not labor for them with their own hands
[17:15] Thus they were a very indolent people, many of whom did worship idols, and the curse of God had fallen upon them because of the traditions of their fathers; notwithstanding the promises of the Lord were extended unto them on the conditions of repentance
just a few examples.... it goes on and on.
wa:do
Nephi-
12:23 And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.
2 Nephi
[5:23] And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
[5:24] And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey
oh but if we become Mormons we will eventually become white people. The church changed the words in this one from 'pure and white' to 'pure and delightsome'
[30:6] And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and delightsome people.
Enos
[20] And I bear record that the people of Nephi did seek diligently to restore the Lamanites unto the true faith in God. But our labors were vain; their hatred was fixed, and they were led by their evil nature that they became wild, and ferocious, and a bloodthirsty people, full of idolatry and filthiness; feeding upon beasts of prey; dwelling in tents, and wandering about in the wilderness with a short skin girdle about their loins and their heads shaven; and their skill was in the bow, and in the cimeter, and the ax. And many of them did eat nothing save it was raw meat; and they were continually seeking to destroy us.
Alma
[17:14] And assuredly it was great, for they had undertaken to preach the word of God to a wild and a hardened and a ferocious people; a people who delighted in murdering the Nephites, and robbing and plundering them; and their hearts were set upon riches, or upon gold and silver, and precious stones; yet they sought to obtain these things by murdering and plundering, that they might not labor for them with their own hands
[17:15] Thus they were a very indolent people, many of whom did worship idols, and the curse of God had fallen upon them because of the traditions of their fathers; notwithstanding the promises of the Lord were extended unto them on the conditions of repentance
just a few examples.... it goes on and on.
wa:do
That thing about changing from white to delightsome? It was delightsome originally. They changed it to white and then back. Why? Don't know. I'm not really worried about it.
There's only one part in there that even mentions skin color, and it calls them a "dark, loathsome and filthy people." It doesn't say they were filthy because they were dark, it just says that he changed the color of their skin. Y'know that's what pretty much everyone thinks happened in the Bible, too. Is the Bible racist also, or just everyone who reads it?
There's only one part in there that even mentions skin color, and it calls them a "dark, loathsome and filthy people." It doesn't say they were filthy because they were dark, it just says that he changed the color of their skin. Y'know that's what pretty much everyone thinks happened in the Bible, too. Is the Bible racist also, or just everyone who reads it?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
dan-
why? because we didn't believe in your god....
nephi
[12:23] And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.
so god made us dark skinned as punnishment....
why would we want to be white anyway? We would burn to a crisp in the sun
besides Jesus as a Middle Eastern Jew wasn't white anyway, so why is white skin so great?
as for the words of the leaders of the church and those of African origen
Joseph Fielding Smith: "That negro race, for instance, have been placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits, few will doubt. It cannot be looked upon as just that they should be deprived of the power of the Priesthood without it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born." (The Way to Perfection, page 43.)
"Ham, through Egyptus, continued the curse which was placed upon the seed of Cain. Because of that curse this dark race was separated and isolated from all the rest of Adam's posterity before the flood, and since that time the same condition has continued, and they have been 'despised among all people.' This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith .... we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro today is barred from the Priesthood." (The Way to Perfection, pages 110-111.)
John Taylor: " . . . after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation a upon a the earth as well as God;.... " (Journal of Discourses, Volume 22, page 304.)
"When he (Satan) destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian worlds, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 23, page 336.)
"As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage." (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, page 102.)
Brigham Young comments about blacks
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Can might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, page 290).
"In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 2, page 172.)
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)
quotes thanks to: http://www.carm.org/
why? because we didn't believe in your god....
nephi
[12:23] And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.
so god made us dark skinned as punnishment....
why would we want to be white anyway? We would burn to a crisp in the sun
besides Jesus as a Middle Eastern Jew wasn't white anyway, so why is white skin so great?
as for the words of the leaders of the church and those of African origen
Joseph Fielding Smith: "That negro race, for instance, have been placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits, few will doubt. It cannot be looked upon as just that they should be deprived of the power of the Priesthood without it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born." (The Way to Perfection, page 43.)
"Ham, through Egyptus, continued the curse which was placed upon the seed of Cain. Because of that curse this dark race was separated and isolated from all the rest of Adam's posterity before the flood, and since that time the same condition has continued, and they have been 'despised among all people.' This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith .... we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro today is barred from the Priesthood." (The Way to Perfection, pages 110-111.)
John Taylor: " . . . after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation a upon a the earth as well as God;.... " (Journal of Discourses, Volume 22, page 304.)
"When he (Satan) destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian worlds, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 23, page 336.)
"As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage." (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, page 102.)
Brigham Young comments about blacks
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Can might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, page 290).
"In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 2, page 172.)
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)
quotes thanks to: http://www.carm.org/
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
and ps... yes the bible is racist as well....