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Featured The Black Stone Found in Makkah's Grand Mosque.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Smart_Guy, Sep 4, 2016.

  1. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    Hello guys!

    I just wanted to share some scientific information about the Black Stone believed by Muslims to originate from Heaven sent to Earth's Arabian peninsula (not sure about the authenticity of the Hadeeth that says so). Science has much debate of the origin and the source of the Black Stone. The best source talking about it I could found is Wikipedia that gives no clear identification to it. Here's a link:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone#Scientific_origins

    This is mainly for reading pleasure and discussion, but I didn't know where to post it but here, so I guess I can't ask to not debate it (staff, if there is a better section concerning science, please move the thread there). If there are good sources about it you know of other than this, please share them with us. Theories and opinions are highly appreciated. Enjoy the read.
     
    #1 Smart_Guy, Sep 4, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
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  2. ShivaFan

    ShivaFan Satyameva Jayate
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    It is a meteor.

    But it is no ordinary meteor.

    And it is associated with the moon.
     
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  3. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    That's an interesting view, SF. Thank you for sharing :)
     
  4. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    Ancient writers Herodian and Cassius Dio mention a temple in Syria where the Semitic god Eloh (Lord) was worshiped. Eloh was associated with the sun and thus identified with Roman god Sol and Greek Helios. In this temple was kept the Black Stone believed to be a manifestation of Eloh himself. The entire Roman orient were flocking for a pilgrimage there, bringing valuable gifts and offerings.

    At this temple site seven priestesses circled the Black Stone seven times, naked. Today, the tawaf, the sevenfold counterclockwise circuit of the Ka'bah, is a memory of that ancient practice. But the older practice is itself a strong echo of the descent of the Sumerian goddess Inanna (and her Babylonian equivalent Ishtar) through the seven gates of the underworld, the gatekeepers demanding the removal of a garment at each gate until she stands naked before her elder sister Ereshkigal, 'Queen of the Great Earth', the goddess of death and the underworld. Another name for Ereshkigal is Allatu, 'the goddess', which is an earlier form of Al'Lat the pre-Islamic moon goddess (Al'Lah being the moon god).

    When Mohammed wanted to surplant Al'Lut with Allah, this was the one Temple he needed to conquer.
     
  5. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    It is fascinating that Muhammad would incorporate an outright Pagan symbol and practice into Islam.
     
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  6. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Allow me to introduce you to the other biggest religion in the world that used the same tactic of incorporating pagan customs and beliefs in order to encourage conversion. Hey, it works!
     
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  7. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Oh, I'm well aware that Christianity has done it many times. I thought Islam was supposedly better... or so they would have us believe. Plus, Islam is pretty intolerant of anything smacking of Paganism.
     
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  8. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Yeah, I hear you. I guess you can fight the kafir, but you can't fight what works.
     
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  10. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    It's just a stone :)

    Some people for some reason insist on touching it when they visit the Grand Mosque. I never did and for now have no intentions to do it.
     
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  11. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu and a strong atheist. Hinduism is a pagan religion.
    Smart_Guy said: It is just a stone. I count 16 pieces in the image. You must have participated in Zulhijja (Is that what it is termed as?). Were you able to see it from close distance?

    "Ritter von Laurin, the Austrian consul-general in Egypt, was able to inspect a fragment of the Stone removed by Muhammad Ali in 1817 and reported that it had a pitch-black exterior and a silver-grey, fine-grained interior in which tiny cubes of a bottle-green material were embedded. There are reportedly a few white or yellow spots on the face of the Stone, and it is officially described as being white with the exception of the face." (Wikipedia)

    What guarantee that it was a part of the "Black Stone"? Where is the piece now? Basalt, pumice, a stone from Wabar/Ubar, Rabb-al-Khali.
     
  12. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    There are rituals in Islam .. there are rituals in ALL religions including Jewish..

    ALL our worship is for Almighty God (or should be) .. we do NOT worship rituals :)

    As @smart guy says .. it's just a stone .. it doesn't matter whether you see it, touch it or kiss it etc. it has no magical properties that I'm aware of
     
  13. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    You answer neatly sidesteps my comment. It was a pagan relic and what you do now was originally a pagan ritual.
     
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  14. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    Islam is intolerant of anything not Muslim from what see . . .
     
  15. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

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    Even after Mohammed usurped the Ka'bah from the pre-Islamic Arabs there is still the ritualistic circumambulation seven times around the structure and the priests of the Ka'bah are still called Beni Shaybah or 'Sons of the Old Woman'. Al'Lat the Arabic pagan moon goddess and counterpart to Al'Lah (the moon god) was alleviated of her duties by Islam as were the Feminine Principles by Jewish and Christian faiths earlier.
     
  16. Parchment

    Parchment Active Member

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    I love history and I find this interesting but I couldn't help thinking of the movie "The God's Must Be Crazy" when I read this:
    Coca-Cola Bottle - YouTube
    For some reason it wouldn't let me embed it
     
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  17. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    Yes, I saw the corner stone only once in my first big pilgrimage (Hajj). No interest in seeing it again really.

    As for the answer to your other questions; I don't really know. It's not important really, it's just a stone that does not help nor harm. Any thought of the real source of the part in question?
     
  18. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    There is a hadith that seems to answer a similar point.

    Goes something like 'I would never have kissed [touched?] the black stone had I not seem the Prophet doing likewise". I suppose that's why they do this.

    Sorry, can't remember any exact references of the precise wording, I'm 99% sure it exists though.


    You're interested in pagan history, I've got a question.

    The traditional Islamic narrative says the Ka'ba was home to 360 idols pre-Islam. Would there be any other places you know of that would have a single shrine/temple dedicated to so many gods?

    My (admittedly limited) understanding was that shrines/temples tended to be dedicated to a single god, or perhaps a male & female(s) gods. A place of worship dedicated to multiple male/female gods though, would that be anything with precedent in the region?
     
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  19. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    I'll look it up. Thanks for the heads up.
     
  20. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    Guys, I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread. If you want to reach me here, please make sure you use the tag feature correctly or directly quote me.

    Love ya all!
     
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