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The "black flame" and the "jewel in the lotus"

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
Do you think the "jewel in the lotus" and the "black flame" are metaphors that refer to the same "true self" or "buddha nature"? I've just read "Wisdom of Eosphoros: The Luciferian Philosophy" by Michael W. Ford and how he described the black flame reminded me a lot to the famous "jewel in the lotus"; our true "I am", unaffected by external circumstances.
 
Each chakra is depicted as and is also a lotus and flower, the crown chakra is a thousand petal lotus in my faith. The black flame seems to be symbolizing transformation, cleansing, protection, perfection, eternity, etc. I have used black astral flames on my chakras, soul and energy body - its extremely cleansing and pleasurable.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm not terribly familiar with Buddhism or even Ford's work but it sounds like you are on the right track by the way you described it. I've heard Setians describe the Black Flame as a source of inspiration and consciousness, so this true "I" in this sense then would be just like the inherent Buddha nature. In my own religion I call this by the Sanskrit word Aham (literally "I Am" or "heart") which is one of the 5 aspects of the Atman (soul).

I've thought about it the last couple of days but even though I've considered myself a Luciferian for almost as long as a Satanist I've realized I'm not nearly as well read on Luciferianism as I should be. I couldn't stand Ford, is there any other authors you would suggest since it seems you've been studying a lot lately?
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
I'm not familiar with the Buddhist concept, but in regards to the black flame, there are two concepts I relate to it:
Either it's consciousness per se.
Or it's the part of one's mind/personality/unconscious which is one's true nature without external influences.
Maybe it's also the connection of both?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
I see Buddha Nature as "sentience," or having a subjective mind conceptually separated from the objective universe. The very nature of sentience leaves it vulnerable to delusion, and Buddha Nature is the capacity of the subjective mind to recognize and to dispel this delusion.

I can see the Black Flame as a related concept, but not exactly the same. "Wisdom through Adversity" is certainly an aspect of awakening Buddha Nature, and of transforming delusion into wisdom. However, there are also other means of transformation within the realm of Buddha Nature that don't fall under the technique of "Wisdom through Adversity" of the Black Flame, so Buddha Nature is a more general concept, whereas the Black Flame is more specific.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
I see Buddha Nature as "sentience," or having a subjective mind conceptually separated from the objective universe. The very nature of sentience leaves it vulnerable to delusion, and Buddha Nature is the capacity of the subjective mind to recognize and to dispel this delusion.

I can see the Black Flame as a related concept, but not exactly the same. "Wisdom through Adversity" is certainly an aspect of awakening Buddha Nature, and of transforming delusion into wisdom. However, there are also other means of transformation within the realm of Buddha Nature that don't fall under the technique of "Wisdom through Adversity" of the Black Flame, so Buddha Nature is a more general concept, whereas the Black Flame is more specific.
Bringing in the Luciferianism symbolism:

"Luminous, monks, is the mind.[1] And it is defiled by incoming defilements." {I,v,9}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements." {I,v,10}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind." {I,vi,1}

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind." {I,vi,2}

~Pabhassara Sutta: Luminous
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Om Mani Padme Hum is about joining Wisdom with Compassion (skillfulness)
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
The transformational properties of the Black Flame are utilized by Mahakala to transforms psychological poisons (greed, hatred, and delusion, but more specifically hatred in this instance) through wrathful processes:
438A_Mahakala__92781.1329348224.490.588.jpg
 

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
Mandi, I also found Ford hard to swallow, but it was the longest introduction to Luciferianism I could find. And it called the attention to me he talked about the black flame in that way. Do you think it's located in the Manipura chakra? Do you think it's the same as the black sun? (in terms of the kind of energy).

Maybe the black flame refers to the true self emmitting low frequency divine energy ("darkness").

crossfire, that "Wisdom through Adversity" concept reminded me to Odin!

And Serpent Child, darkness feels good on one hand, but it has given me melancholy on the other. Maybe I'll have to keep discovering my Jungian shadow... or something.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The transformational properties of the Black Flame are utilized by Mahakala to transforms psychological poisons (greed, hatred, and delusion, but more specifically hatred in this instance) through wrathful processes:
438A_Mahakala__92781.1329348224.490.588.jpg

Oh man, that Tantric art there is awesome. <3

Mandi, I also found Ford hard to swallow, but it was the longest introduction to Luciferianism I could find. And it called the attention to me he talked about the black flame in that way. Do you think it's located in the Manipura chakra? Do you think it's the same as the black sun? (in terms of the kind of energy).

Hell if I know. Also I try to avoid symbolism of the black sun due to some of it's association with far right groups.
 

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
Hell if I know. Also I try to avoid symbolism of the black sun due to some of it's association with far right groups.

When it's about symbols it all depends on your intention. The eagle symbol was also used by the Nazis, but also by the Romans and also many other ancient cultures as a symbol of power. The same happens with the swastika, which originally is a symbol of well being.
 
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crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
When it's about symbols it all depends on your intention. The eagle symbol was also used by the Nazis, but also by the Romans and also many other ancient cultures as a symbol of power. The same happens with the swastika, which originally is a symbol of well being.
In my Order the Black Sun is represented by the Qliphothic sphere of Thagirion, and is associated with the alchemical process of nigredo.
 

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
In my Order the Black Sun is represented by the Qliphothic sphere of Thagirion, and is associated with the alchemical process of nigredo.

The meaning that Lucifer gave me (if indeed he really sent me those thoughts) is that's the symbol of the internal sun. The true self as a source of liberating energy; instead of the external Sun of the Demiurge.

BTW, LOL, Wikipedia's article about Thagirion is terrifying!

I must add I believe Lucifer is the male appearance of Luxfera, a female master.
 
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crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
The meaning that Lucifer gave me (if indeed he really sent me those thoughts) is that's the symbol of the internal sun. The true self as a source of liberating energy; instead of the external Sun of the Demiurge.

BTW, LOL, Wikipedia's article about Thagirion is terrifying!

I must add I believe Lucifer is the male appearance of Luxfera, a female master.
Of course, Thagirion is internal! You access it through your heart/mind! Even the Christian Bible acknowledges this. Tiphereth, the sephira analogous to Thagirion, is associated with the heart.


II Petri 1:19Biblia Sacra Vulgata (VULGATE)
19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris

2 Peter 1:19Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
19 So we have the prophetic word strongly confirmed. You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.


Thagirion = The Disputers (Questioners.) Wisdom Through Adversity. The Black Flame. Sol Nigris, the Black Sun.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
In my Order the Black Sun is represented by the Qliphothic sphere of Thagirion, and is associated with the alchemical process of nigredo.
I so far only encountered the black sun being equated with Da'ath.
But I'm not well-versed in Kabbalah.

May I ask what you mean by nigredo? I heard that terminology before, but I don't think I ever encounter a proper explanation.
 
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