The Birth of Yahweh

[BilliardsBall]

Not invisible in the broad sense, since they're all detectable. But yes, we have strong evidence of gravity, electro-magnetism, the strong force and the weak force. For details, just look in Wikipedia.
I don't have to. Being scientists, they know that dark matter is the name of a problem, a hypothetical thing, one we're yet to define and find.

No, get him to appear to a body of researchers with the necessary instruments to detect the qualities of this being. That's all that's needed.

And it seems that although you say he's real, has objective existence, you don't have a recent photo to set the ball rolling.

Ah, so if you're on earth, it's impossible to meet Jesus. I hadn't understood you to say that before. But if that's the case, does the Holy Ghost have objective existence? Or is [it] imaginary?

That wasn't what I said. I said that the Christian god lacks a definition such that if we encountered [him] we could tell it was him. Nor any useful description of the manner in which [he] exists. And that the only place he'd ever been detected is in the imagination of individuals.

But then you claim that [he]'s real, [he] exists independently of anyone's imagination, [he] has objective existence. So I very reasonably say, Really? Show me. And you can't.
No wonder [his] PR is a disaster. [He] should be appearing unambiguously to the scoffers and rubbing their noses in their error, and then going and having a beer with them and telling them how the system works. That'd fix the scoffer problem quick enough!

No, I haven't had a direct view of my brain, and I hope not to. I have however seen various sectioned x-rays of it (they're in a cupboard somewhere) so I know it's in there. Indeed, even before the x-rays I was pretty much aware that it produced my sense of self and so on.
I'm not clear what that is, but fortunately I have a real heart.

There continues to be confusion on your part. Dark matter is a response to a hypothetical issue in physics or a real issue with an invisible cause?

God needs to appear to scoffers right away because scoffers are a problem God must handle on your terms? No one will be in Hell saying "How did this happen?" Indeed, you could stand before God today and God could say, "Why didn't you listen to all the people on those forums? Why did you incessantly argue with them?"

The other thing you don't seem to get in your message above regarding a severe double-standard, is how God is self-evident to me but can't exist because he's not self-evident to you (standard one), but your mind exists because the fruits of it are self-evident to you but not to me (the double standard). We're in that sandbox now, really? If something is self-existent to you it must exist if I deny it but not vice versa? You'll surely pardon me if I have a case of solipsism due to your materialism but . . . go ahead and prove to me you exist and I'll prove to you God exists. You'll get all the irrefutable proof I hold.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I believe I am saying that there is no evidence Jesus existed before His birth. So the notion that Jesus was there with Adam and Eve is ridiculous. Now God who is in Jesus was there but that is not the same thing.

You will want to look up the term "hierophany of Christ" and dig into the biblical examples of same.

 

[blü 2]

Dark matter is a response to a hypothetical issue in physics or a real issue with an invisible cause?

Astronomers have noted that many galaxies rotate too fast to stay together if the only things providing mass / gravity is the observable matter in them. Hypothesis: there must be some non-observable material providing the necessary extra mass / gravity. This hypothetical material has been dubbed 'dark matter', and there's no agreement about what it actually is, though there are hypotheses.

God needs to appear to scoffers right away because scoffers are a problem God must handle on your terms?

Not at all. It's not my problem that belief and churchgoing are declining in virtually all Western countries. But God might think it was a problem, and I'm offering helpful suggestions.

The other thing you don't seem to get in your message above regarding a severe double-standard, is how God is self-evident to me but can't exist because he's not self-evident to you (standard one)

You said [he] has objective existence. If that's true then you can give us a satisfactory demonstration of [him] in reality. But you can't. This is evidence for the proposition that [he] doesn't have objective existence, hence [he]'s imaginary.

but your mind exists because the fruits of it are self-evident to you but not to me (the double standard).

You're confusing apples with hippogryphs. I, like the rest of my species, have a brain. Is it your claim that you don't?

God, however, never says or does anything in reality or even appears in it. If [he] did you'd at least have the photo I asked for. You can't even tell us how tall [he] is, or [his] skin color, or what scotch [he] prefers, or for that matter whether [he] has a brain. You're unable to tell us anything about a real god, and I infer from this that it's because you don't know.

If I'm wrong, please correct me by providing this information and telling us how you know.

Oh and it'd be helpful if you'd clear up the point whether (as you said) no one on earth can meet Jesus because he doesn't come down this way these days.

And also whether the Holy Ghost has objective existence.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Astronomers have noted that many galaxies rotate too fast to stay together if the only things providing mass / gravity is the observable matter in them. Hypothesis: there must be some non-observable material providing the necessary extra mass / gravity. This hypothetical material has been dubbed 'dark matter', and there's no agreement about what it actually is, though there are hypotheses.
Not at all. It's not my problem that belief and churchgoing are declining in virtually all Western countries. But God might think it was a problem, and I'm offering helpful suggestions.
You said [he] has objective existence. If that's true then you can give us a satisfactory demonstration of [him] in reality. But you can't. This is evidence for the proposition that [he] doesn't have objective existence, hence [he]'s imaginary.
You're confusing apples with hippogryphs. I, like the rest of my species, have a brain. Is it your claim that you don't?

God, however, never says or does anything in reality or even appears in it. If [he] did you'd at least have the photo I asked for. You can't even tell us how tall [he] is, or [his] skin color, or what scotch [he] prefers, or for that matter whether [he] has a brain. You're unable to tell us anything about a real god, and I infer from this that it's because you don't know.

If I'm wrong, please correct me by providing this information and telling us how you know.

Oh and it'd be helpful if you'd clear up the point whether (as you said) no one on earth can meet Jesus because he doesn't come down this way these days.

And also whether the Holy Ghost has objective existence.

Arguably, some of your post above is correct, some isn't.

However, my offer stands. Prove to me you exist, and I will give you irrefutable proof God exists. You seemed to have sidestepped my request regarding this issue. Do you exist?

Thanks.

 

[blü 2]

Prove to me you exist, and I will give you irrefutable proof God exists. You seemed to have sidestepped my request regarding this issue. Do you exist?

So you have no irrefutable proof that God exists in reality.
You ─ what's the polite word? ─ misspoke.

No surprise there/

 

[BilliardsBall]

So you have no irrefutable proof that God exists in reality.
You ─ what's the polite word? ─ misspoke.

No surprise there/

I will provide you irrefutable proof "in reality" as you wrote, immediately upon your proof provided that you exist in reality.

For all I know, you are some kind of atheistic Urban Dictionary: Poe

 

[blü 2]

I will provide you irrefutable proof "in reality" as you wrote, immediately upon your proof provided that you exist in reality.

Why do you now impose a precondition before you present this 'irrefutable proof' you claim to have?

You keep trying to sell me religion, you want me to tithe and get fat, you boast that you have irrefutable proof of the reality of god ─ but asked for that proof, asked to play the joker and win the trick and the game, it turns out you're merely pretending.

No credit to you.

For all I know, you are some kind of atheistic Urban Dictionary: Po

What if I were? Poes are still real people.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Why do you now impose a precondition before you present this 'irrefutable proof' you claim to have?

You keep trying to sell me religion, you want me to tithe and get fat, you boast that you have irrefutable proof of the reality of god ─ but asked for that proof, asked to play the joker and win the trick and the game, it turns out you're merely pretending.

No credit to you.
What if I were? Poes are still real people.

No, you could be me posing as a Poe.

So tell me, if you refuse to prove you exist (because you know it would be difficult) . . .

 

[Muffled]

My own view is based on the findings of straightforward archaeology. What you choose to believe is a matter for you, of course.

I believe archeologis fantasize. The truth is that they were not there as witnesses and God is..

 

[blü 2]

I believe archeologis fantasize. The truth is that they were not there as witnesses and God is..

You weren't there; so how do you know God was there?