1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The biogeographic evidence for evolution

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    27,220
    Ratings:
    +15,085
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Nope, I will gladly go over your post that started all of this. I am not afraid to support my claims.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,734
    Ratings:
    +1,313
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Feel free.
    Yup. I did.
    I'm not arguing another page with you though.
     
  3. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,041
    Ratings:
    +1,232
    Religion:
    Swedenborgianism
    Nyanzapithecus alesi might have been the most recent common ancestor humans share with other great ape species. Alesi lived ca. 13 million years ago in Kenya.

    Nengo, I. et al., 2017, "New Infant Cranimum from the African Miocene Sheds Light on Ape Evolution,"Nature 548(10 August): 169-189. doi:10.1038/nature23456

    New infant cranium from the African Miocene sheds light on ape evolution




    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    27,220
    Ratings:
    +15,085
    Religion:
    Atheist
    No, you did not. You simply denied. That is not supporting your claim. And now you are running away.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    6,957
    Ratings:
    +4,475
    Religion:
    Methodist
    Some people cannot handle the truth or the give recognition to their limited knowledge. It sounds like a lot of, a whole lot of, projection to me.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    6,957
    Ratings:
    +4,475
    Religion:
    Methodist
    Whiteflies comprise a group of insects in the order Hemiptera, in the family Aleyrodidae. The family contains about 1,500 species of usually very tiny, winged insects that feed by piercing sucking of plant juices on the underside of plant leaves. They are found worldwide and many species are important crop pests in both field and greenhouse agriculture. The genus Bemesia includes a number of agriculturally important species found worldwide including the very diverse Bemesia tabaci species complex.

    The study in the linked paper involves the examination of the biodiversity and uses molecular genetic data to determine divergence times in order to examine if human agriculture is driving a geographical change in the expansion of members of that species complex.

    The results indicate that divergence of the members of this complex occurred millions of years prior to the emergence of Homo sapiens and there is no indication that human activity is selecting the current makeup of the species complex. The indication from the data is that geospatial patterns in the complex are likely due to geological or climatological events of the past.

    This is the first paper I have seen on the use of geogrpahical data and the emerging volume of molecular data to determine if there is human influence on the speciation and biogeographical patterns of insects. Human activity has been observed to drive other changes in populations of living things. The emergence of insecticide resistance among insect and weed pests and antibiotic resistance in pathogenic bacteria are two prominent examples. Other prominent examples include population reductions and extinctions associated with human activity also. Considering that we compete with a number of insects for the same food plants, it is an important question to ask and would have practical issues associated with it. If @Jim if you happen to see this, here is an example of a practical application of evolutionary, biogeographical and molecular evidence.

    Is agriculture driving the diversification of the Bemisia tabaci species complex (Hemiptera: Sternorrhyncha: Aleyrodidae)?: Dating, diversification and biogeographic evidence revealed | BMC Evolutionary Biology | Full Text
     
    #146 Dan From Smithville, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    6,957
    Ratings:
    +4,475
    Religion:
    Methodist
    Here is a paper on some of those sloths. The study was conducted in the Panamanian island province of Bocas del Toro of which I believe that Escudo de Veraguas is a part.

    I am still reading through this and trying to understand the findings, but the abstract mentions that these populations show a sustained rate of evolution that appears to unite micro- and macro-evolutionary times scales. This may be worth further discussion. I have highlighted the section in the abstract below and am including a link to the paper for review.

    Anderson, Robert P. & Charles O. Handley Jr. 2002. Dwarfism in insular sloths: biogeography, selection, and evolutionary rate. Evolution. 56(5): 1045-1058.

    Error - Cookies Turned Off

    Edit: After posting, I see the link says 'Error-Cookies Turned Off'. If the link does not work, as it appears it may not, just put the paper title in Google Scholar and do a search. It should give you a link to the pdf of the paper.

    Abstract. The islands of Bocas del Toro, Panama, were sequentially separated from the adjacent mainland by rising sea levels during the past 10,000 years. Three-toed sloths (Bradypus) from five islands are smaller than their mainland counterparts, and the insular populations themselves vary in mean body size. We first examine relationships between body size and physical characteristics of the islands, testing hypotheses regarding optimal body size, evolutionary equilibria, and the presence of dispersal in this system. To do so, we conduct linear regressions of body size onto island area, distance from the mainland, and island age. Second, we retroactively calculate two measures of the evolutionary rate of change in body size (haldanes and darwins) and the standardized linear selection differential, or selection intensity (i). We also test the observed morphological changes against models of evolution by genetic drift. The results indicate that mean body size decreases linearly with island age, explaining up to 97% of the variation among population means. Neither island area nor distance from the mainland is significant in multiple regressions that include island age. Thus, we find no evidence for differential optimal body size among islands, or for dispersal in the system. In contrast, the dependence of body size on island age suggests uniform directional selection for small body size in the insular populations. Although genetic drift cannot be discounted as the cause for this evolution in body size, the probability is small given the consistent direction of evolution (repeated dwarfism). The insular sloths show a sustained rate of evolution similar to those measured in haldanes over tens of generations, appearing to unite micro- and macroevolutionary time scales. Furthermore, the magnitude and rate of this example of rapid differentiation fall within predictions of theoretical models from population genetics. However, the linearity of the relationship between body size and island age is not predicted, suggesting that either more factors are involved than those considered here, or that theoretical advances are necessary to explain constant evolutionary rates over long time spans in new selective environments.
     
    #147 Dan From Smithville, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    8,724
    Ratings:
    +4,262
    Pride's a sin, you know?

    You implied different races of humans were different species. Just admit it already and I'd have a lot more respect from you. This kind of childish preening doesn't impress me.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    15,465
    Ratings:
    +10,913
    Religion:
    None

    It download fine, i will read later, thing to do this afternoon. Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    8,982
    Ratings:
    +3,831
    Dude, you made a simple error. Several posters have pointed it out to you. Just own it and move on. Don't be a Donald Trump.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  11. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    3,038
    Ratings:
    +2,141
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Nothing false about it.
    Your post is up, for all to see.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    8,573
    Ratings:
    +616
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    Rhetoric claiming we have no answer for this, yet I've read many position papers explaining this.
     
  13. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,734
    Ratings:
    +1,313
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Now that you made that true statement, namely, "Pride is a sin."
    I met one person in real life who stunned me with this level of pride.
    I said something. They understood me to mean something (else). They confronted me. I explained what I meant. They began insisting that I meant what they understood me to be saying. No matter how I explained that they misunderstood.

    Why? Pride - one that is at such a level to stun the most unreasonable person. It was so unbelievable to me that someone would be so arrogant as to believe that they know your thoughts, and your beliefs better than you.
    Now I find it here on RF, and it is stunning.
    It just shows how vile pride is, that someone would lift themselves so high on a pedestal, to believe that they must be right, and anyone who does not agree with them, must be wrong.... and insist strongly that the other person take their side. I mean like Wow. It's enough to make someone swear in disbelief, but thankfully my God restrains my tongue.

    He is actually far removed from the proud. He keeps his distance from them, and this is the reason they never understand anything spiritual. This is why, according to the Bible, they are blind to the truth, and this is also why, according to the Bible, when they fall from that great height, it will be a great crash.
    (Proverbs 16:18, 19)
    Pride is before a crash, And a haughty spirit before stumbling. 19 Better to be humble among the meek Than to share the spoil of the haughty.

    I think you - not just you ImmortalFlame - have demonstrated / proven why you don't see reason, why nothing reasonable makes sense to you, why explaining anything spiritual to you is a waste of time.
    When a person's pride is so high as to blind him, that's so sad, it's heartbreaking... makes me feel sorry for you on one hand, but not so sorry on the other. On that side, it's pathetic.

    Since these are my last comments on this thread, for two reasons, 1) the thread is dead, 2) it seems persons are only here to find something useless to keep them in conversation... I will say this...
    When @Polymath257 made his first comment, I wasn't even aware that he was pointing out that my example was not about species.
    That's clear from my second post.
    I only realized after, 'Wait. He thinks I am taking about species.'
    Why did it not register that he was referring to my post?
    It is obvious I did not have species in mind with the example I used. It was simply making the point that God does not have to create anything individually, in order to get variety - a simple refutation of the argument made in the OP.

    You don't have to accept that, and I don't care that you wouldn't. If we were in person, and I took a lie detector test, and passed, pride would still not allow you to believe you are wrong.
    That's how pride works. It blinds - blinds one to anything but their ego. Worst... it feeds off an inflated ego.

    Finally, what made the thread even crazier, is when persons are going to exclude species in the fossil record - making the OP even more ridiculous.
    So there is no sensible reason for me to stick around here. No I don't want to engage you in your little back and forth chit chat, on "Who is the liar". If it's a way of inflating one's ego more feel free to do that , by repeating that comment to yourself or among yourselves until the end of the universe, or, our lives, as we won't out last the universe... or rather nonbelievers won't.... according to the scriptures. :innocent:
     
    #153 nPeace, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    • Funny Funny x 2
  14. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    8,982
    Ratings:
    +3,831
    o_O
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    4,734
    Ratings:
    +1,313
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
  16. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    6,957
    Ratings:
    +4,475
    Religion:
    Methodist
    What a bunch of self-serving double talk and nonsense.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    27,220
    Ratings:
    +15,085
    Religion:
    Atheist
  18. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    6,957
    Ratings:
    +4,475
    Religion:
    Methodist
    I am not even sure why you were here in the first place. You have literally contributed nothing of value in response to the OP or to anyone else.

    I would be interested if you had an actual argument. I am sure many would be. But what your pride claims, your knowledge and understanding cannot generate.

    The take home message is that you have no valid argument and you oppose any discussion supporting evolution, because it is against your belief and your church doctrine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    5,548
    Ratings:
    +2,710
    Religion:
    None
    He drives a clown car into the center ring and then complains that he is not taken seriously.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  20. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    8,724
    Ratings:
    +4,262
    Several paragraphs of text, just to avoid admitting you made an error.

    Well, it's clear who you really think God is, in your mind.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...