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The biogeographic evidence for evolution

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Reread your first sentence again. Evolutionary biology IS associated with Social DARWINISM, thus, the name!

I wonder how many times you need this stuff explained to you before you'll move on from this asanine "argument".

It seems that the number doesn't matter and that you're not planning on learning anything, nore correcting your mistakes.

Genocide of Jews predated Darwin, yes. Would you like a half-dozen Mein Kampf quotes that Hitler made regarding DARWINISM and the JEWISH PEOPLE?

So people can show how it doesn't have anything to do with evolutionary biology / darwinism and how it's a misappropriation of the term?

What would be the point though. It's not like you're going to correct your mistakes and acknowledge the error of your juvenile reasoning.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Is this an NTS fallacy?

1) No vegan eats meat
2) My "vegan friend" eats meat
3) My friend actually isn't a true vegan


No, but "vegan" is a well defined word that isn't up for interpretation, unlike the word "christian".

This leads us to:

1) Jesus said who is a true Christian (from the Greek "follower/disciple of Christ")
2) Why is the founder of Christianity’s definition different than your definition?
3) Whose definition should Christians adhere to... Jesus's or yours?

I'm sure all those christians that you are calling "no true christians", disagree with your opinion.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Reread your first sentence again. Evolutionary biology IS associated with Social DARWINISM, thus, the name!

Genocide of Jews predated Darwin, yes. Would you like a half-dozen Mein Kampf quotes that Hitler made regarding DARWINISM and the JEWISH PEOPLE?

This is a typical dishonest tactics from absurdly dishonest

Have you read ever any a single biology textbook?

Not one of them involved social or political philosophy or agenda.

Pick up any textbook, and read those chapters involving evolution. I dare you to read one, and not one of them mention Social Darwinism in any shape or form.

Nowhere in the modern textbooks, do they ever mention races as different species, no where do they promote racism or committing genocide.

So unless you can find a single modern biology textbook used in universities or high schools that tell students it is okay to judge people by races and promote race superiority, persecution and genocide, then you are nothing more than ignorant and dishonest born-again Christian, masquerading as a Jew.

In fact, I don’t think many of them (textbooks) use the term “Darwinism” whatsoever.

The actual term they referred to Darwin’s work is “Natural Selection”, which is also the very term Darwin used, not “Darwinism”; Darwin never named the theory after himself. On Origin and The Descent of Man, never referred to “Darwinism”.

And in case, you have missed it, or ignored, Darwin didn’t coin the phrase “Survival of the fittest”. It was Herbert Spencer, and name not mentioned in most textbooks.

And even when biologists who do use it (“survival of the fittest”), the context in Evolution is very different from the Social Darwinism, no modern textbook used them in connection to race superiority and genocide. This phrase is often misused, often deliberately, by silly, ignorant and dishonest creationists.

In biology, the phrase only referred to species being able to adapt to environment, where beneficial traits are passed on to future generations. If they failed to pass on such traits, they risked not being able to survive. None of them involved going to wars or committing atrocities in the name of race superiority.

Take for instance, the butterflies. You will find them in temperate regions, but you can find different subspecies that have adapted and survived hot and humid tropical rainforests or jungles, but not arid regions with little to no vegetation, and won’t them in polar regions, again with no vegetation. No known subspecies surviving and thriving under these harsher conditions. Other insects such as cockroaches might survive, but not butterflies.

Creationists often misused biological terms in order to score points, such as yourself, but you are the one who is beating a dead horse with this whole stupid Social Darwinism saga.

Why don’t you pick up modern biology textbook and learn what are actually taught about Natural Selection, then you will see there are nothing about wars, genocide, Hitler, Nazi or Jews.

You are terribly either misinformed, or you are simply lying. Read a textbook and not some creationists’ propaganda BS.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Excuse me, but you were the one who keeping associating evolutionary biology with Soical Darwinism (SD), and SD with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, genocide and racism.

The theory of Evolution is purely biology, and have nothing to do with politics, racism, wars and genocides. You are the only person who keep linking Evolution to unrelated political and social ideology.

You keep denying racism, persecution and genocide of Jews PREDATED Darwin and Hitler.

Jews have been attacked since the crusades in the European towns and cities they have been living in, in the Middle Ages. They were repeatedly blamed by local populace for the 14th Black Death. Alleged heretics and witches weren’t the only ones targeted during the Roman Inquisition and Spanish Inquisition.

You keep ignoring Martin Luther only preached against Jews.

Racism and genocides were going on for long time, BilliardsBall, it certainly didn’t started with Hitler.

Even your own bible condoned genocides, for instances Joshua’s Jericho and his attacks upon other Canaanite cities.

Then there was Samuel ordering Saul to kill every living Amalekites, including women and children, and they weren’t even allowed to spare the cattle and flocks. Saul sparing the king of the Amalekiutes, led to his own downfall, where he lost his sanity (paranoia) and eventually his own life. The cause of this genocide was caused by God holding a grudge for something that happened generations ago, when the Amalekites in Moses’ time (read Exodus), when the Amalekites then refused the Israelites safe passage through their kingdom.

Why should the Amalekites contemporary to Samuel and Saul pay for the deeds (sins) of their ancestors?

God played favoritisms, where he turned brother against brother, started way back, with Cain and Abel, and continued on with god cursing Ham’s descendants should become slaves to descendants of Shem and Japheth, Jacob and Esau, and so on.

Saul and David, may not be brothers, but they were father-in-law and son-in-law, when David married into the family. David’s character seemed very noble in 1 Samuel, trying to avoid confrontation with his king, but God’s character isn’t, in which god manipulated the events so that Saul was eventually killed and god’s favorite would succeed to the throne.

But even God’s chosen people can suffer, like in judges, whenever the Israelites started worshipping other deities, God would influenced other people to attack and oppress the Israelites.

Playing with favorites, often lead to tensions and envy, which could lead to racism and persecution. And the Bible clearly have no qualms about genocides.
I am shocked that a grand scholar like BB is unaware of the history of his own religion's applications.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
A fascinating argument there, "two wrongs make a..." what, exactly?
No, it is the exposure of the conservative Christians' hypocrisy and projection.
Saying a Christian was racist does not excuse Hitler's racism...
And claiming Hitler was a "Darwinist" does not absolve you of your sickening and pathetic 'guilt by association' games.
I wonder if you are a racist or Social Darwinist. This is the umpteenth time you've made a "buh-but Christians are also racists, like Hitler!" argument.

I wonder if you are actually a Satanist trying to make Christianity look ridiculous and Christians look like morons.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
No, but "vegan" is a well defined word that isn't up for interpretation, unlike the word "christian".



I'm sure all those christians that you are calling "no true christians", disagree with your opinion.

JESUS CHRIST said what a Christian IS--and the Greek word for Christian (FOLLOWER of Christ) is used repeatedly in the Bible, making it as clear as "vegan".
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I wonder how many times you need this stuff explained to you before you'll move on from this asanine "argument".

It seems that the number doesn't matter and that you're not planning on learning anything, nore correcting your mistakes.



So people can show how it doesn't have anything to do with evolutionary biology / darwinism and how it's a misappropriation of the term?

What would be the point though. It's not like you're going to correct your mistakes and acknowledge the error of your juvenile reasoning.

It's a defined TERM, not a "misappropriation of the term" as you wrote.

If you feel Social Darwinism is RIGHT but "misappropriated" by Hitler, that is racist, evil. You're not a racist so you must be WRONG.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
This is a typical dishonest tactics from absurdly dishonest

Have you read ever any a single biology textbook?

Not one of them involved social or political philosophy or agenda.

Pick up any textbook, and read those chapters involving evolution. I dare you to read one, and not one of them mention Social Darwinism in any shape or form.

Nowhere in the modern textbooks, do they ever mention races as different species, no where do they promote racism or committing genocide.

So unless you can find a single modern biology textbook used in universities or high schools that tell students it is okay to judge people by races and promote race superiority, persecution and genocide, then you are nothing more than ignorant and dishonest born-again Christian, masquerading as a Jew.

In fact, I don’t think many of them (textbooks) use the term “Darwinism” whatsoever.

The actual term they referred to Darwin’s work is “Natural Selection”, which is also the very term Darwin used, not “Darwinism”; Darwin never named the theory after himself. On Origin and The Descent of Man, never referred to “Darwinism”.

And in case, you have missed it, or ignored, Darwin didn’t coin the phrase “Survival of the fittest”. It was Herbert Spencer, and name not mentioned in most textbooks.

And even when biologists who do use it (“survival of the fittest”), the context in Evolution is very different from the Social Darwinism, no modern textbook used them in connection to race superiority and genocide. This phrase is often misused, often deliberately, by silly, ignorant and dishonest creationists.

In biology, the phrase only referred to species being able to adapt to environment, where beneficial traits are passed on to future generations. If they failed to pass on such traits, they risked not being able to survive. None of them involved going to wars or committing atrocities in the name of race superiority.

Take for instance, the butterflies. You will find them in temperate regions, but you can find different subspecies that have adapted and survived hot and humid tropical rainforests or jungles, but not arid regions with little to no vegetation, and won’t them in polar regions, again with no vegetation. No known subspecies surviving and thriving under these harsher conditions. Other insects such as cockroaches might survive, but not butterflies.

Creationists often misused biological terms in order to score points, such as yourself, but you are the one who is beating a dead horse with this whole stupid Social Darwinism saga.

Why don’t you pick up modern biology textbook and learn what are actually taught about Natural Selection, then you will see there are nothing about wars, genocide, Hitler, Nazi or Jews.

You are terribly either misinformed, or you are simply lying. Read a textbook and not some creationists’ propaganda BS.

I understand. Biology textbooks often teach evolution, but never teach Social Darwinism.

Are you aware that Sociology textbooks often teach that Social Darwinism is a former belief, a false belief, and that Hitler and Stalin, et al, ADORED it and used it to justify mass murder?

Are you aware that Social Darwinism means "a social construct based on biological (racial) Darwinist/evolutionary beliefs"?

I think you should nod your head, "Yes, I understand," and move on. Cause it STILL looks like you are "excited" about Jew-killing (you've talked about it rhetorically for 20 posts, as if you're unaware that I'm Jewish), and pretty hellbent (pun not intended) on defending Hitler and Stalin, which disgusts me. I recommend you:

1) Renounce the genocide not just by Christians, but by Nazis and other secular perverts--stop claiming that ALL Nazis were religionists, or all Stalinists

2) Renounce racism

3) Get over the fact that racists have leaned on Darwin's WORDS for over a century. GROSS!
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
No, it is the exposure of the conservative Christians' hypocrisy and projection.

And claiming Hitler was a "Darwinist" does not absolve you of your sickening and pathetic 'guilt by association' games.


I wonder if you are actually a Satanist trying to make Christianity look ridiculous and Christians look like morons.

I'm not doing a guilt by association game. I'm demonstrating your break with reality. For example, is this statement factual or not?

"Social Darwinism is a social construct rooted in (now outmoded) Darwinian/evolutionary concepts regarding human races."

You can do it! Take a deep breath, commit!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm not doing a guilt by association game. I'm demonstrating your break with reality. For example, is this statement factual or not?

"Social Darwinism is a social construct rooted in (now outmoded) Darwinian/evolutionary concepts regarding human races."

You can do it! Take a deep breath, commit!
Easy, no.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I understand. Biology textbooks often teach evolution, but never teach Social Darwinism.

Are you aware that Sociology textbooks often teach that Social Darwinism is a former belief, a false belief, and that Hitler and Stalin, et al, ADORED it and used it to justify mass murder?

Are you aware that Social Darwinism means "a social construct based on biological (racial) Darwinist/evolutionary beliefs"?

I think you should nod your head, "Yes, I understand," and move on. Cause it STILL looks like you are "excited" about Jew-killing (you've talked about it rhetorically for 20 posts, as if you're unaware that I'm Jewish), and pretty hellbent (pun not intended) on defending Hitler and Stalin, which disgusts me. I recommend you:

1) Renounce the genocide not just by Christians, but by Nazis and other secular perverts--stop claiming that ALL Nazis were religionists, or all Stalinists

2) Renounce racism

3) Get over the fact that racists have leaned on Darwin's WORDS for over a century. GROSS!

I am not trying to defend Hitler or to justify or condone racism, genocide, and war, you fool.

You are using straw man argument.

And you are not paying attention to what I have been saying.

What I have been saying that Evolution is biology, not politics, racism, genocide. And Evolution isn’t Social Darwinism, you fool.

I have never supported Hitler or the Holocaust or Social Darwinism. Do you this often? Do you like lying in Jesus’ or in God’s name?

If is anyone sickened, it is how you shamelessly use the Hitler accusation.

This topic is about Evolution (biology), not Social Darwinism.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not doing a guilt by association game. I'm demonstrating your break with reality. For example, is this statement factual or not?

"Social Darwinism is a social construct rooted in (now outmoded) Darwinian/evolutionary concepts regarding human races."

You can do it! Take a deep breath, commit!

NOT. It is NOT rooted in Darwinian or evolutionary concepts.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I think you should nod your head, "Yes, I understand," and move on. Cause it STILL looks like you are "excited" about Jew-killing (you've talked about it rhetorically for 20 posts, as if you're unaware that I'm Jewish), and pretty hellbent (pun not intended) on defending Hitler and Stalin, which disgusts me. I recommend you:

1) Renounce the genocide not just by Christians, but by Nazis and other secular perverts--stop claiming that ALL Nazis were religionists, or all Stalinists

2) Renounce racism

3) Get over the fact that racists have leaned on Darwin's WORDS for over a century. GROSS!

Who here has defended Hitler or Stalin? Nobody.

Who here is 'excited' by the thought of killing Jews? Nobody.

Who here has supported genocide? Well, some defend the genocides in the Bible, but not any secularists.

Who here has *failed* to renounce racism? Nobody.

Who here has repeatedly distorted the words and meaning of what Darwin and those of his time wrote? Guess who?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I am not trying to defend Hitler or to justify or condone racism, genocide, and war, you fool.

You are using straw man argument.

And you are not paying attention to what I have been saying.

What I have been saying that Evolution is biology, not politics, racism, genocide. And Evolution isn’t Social Darwinism, you fool.

I have never supported Hitler or the Holocaust or Social Darwinism. Do you this often? Do you like lying in Jesus’ or in God’s name?

If is anyone sickened, it is how you shamelessly use the Hitler accusation.

This topic is about Evolution (biology), not Social Darwinism.
i wonder how he reacts that even more than being influenced by Darwin was the fact that Hitler was affected by Christianity and the beliefs of Christians for his acts. Creationists should really think twice before they claim that Hitler was a "Darwinist" . By that same standard he was a well respected upstanding Christian.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
i wonder how he reacts that even more than being influenced by Darwin was the fact that Hitler was affected by Christianity and the beliefs of Christians for his acts. Creationists should really think twice before they claim that Hitler was a "Darwinist" . By that same standard he was a well respected upstanding Christian.

More specifically, Hitler and Germany in general was MUCH more influenced by the extreme anti-semitism of Luther than anything picked up from distorting 19th century biology.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Are you aware that Sociology textbooks often teach that Social Darwinism is a former belief, a false belief, and that Hitler and Stalin, et al, ADORED it and used it to justify mass murder?

Are you aware that Social Darwinism means "a social construct based on biological (racial) Darwinist/evolutionary beliefs"?
Personally, I don’t give a rat’s **mod edit** what Social Darwinism say or teach, BilliardsBall, because it is just another social-political philosophy, that I don’t follow.

A person can choose to follow one or any number of philosophies, and Social Darwinism is just one of many useless philosophies that I find irrelevant to me.

But if you really want to talk about Social Darwinism, why don’t you start a new thread, instead of plaguing this thread which is irrelevant to Evolution.

It seemed the only racists here, is you.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
It's a defined TERM, not a "misappropriation of the term" as you wrote.

If you feel Social Darwinism is RIGHT but "misappropriated" by Hitler, that is racist, evil. You're not a racist so you must be WRONG.

That semantic hole you're digging just keeps getting deeper and deeper dude.

None of these political shenannigans has any relevancy whatsoever to the explanatory models of biology.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
JESUS CHRIST said what a Christian IS--and the Greek word for Christian (FOLLOWER of Christ) is used repeatedly in the Bible, making it as clear as "vegan".

And yet, there are thousands and thousands of different denominations of christianity - all of whom believe they follow the "correct" version and many of which think the others are "no true christians".

So clearly, it's not that clear.

In fact, it's so unclear that christians themselves can't even agree on it - hence the thousands of denominations.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
3) Get over the fact that racists have leaned on Darwin's WORDS for over a century. GROSS!

On misunderstandings or even blatant misrepresentation of said words.

You keep ignoring this point.
There's nothing racist about evolution.
Nothing in evolution claims one race or species is "superior" or "inferior" to others.

Those who say / said it does are either wrong or lying.
 
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