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Featured The Binding of Satan

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by sooda, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. Timothy Spurlin

    Timothy Spurlin Active Member

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    The Bible is the claim not the evidence. The Bible is not objective evidence.

    The clay tablets exist outside of the mind. The tablets can be tested and peer reviewed.
    Can the Bible be tested and peer reviewed?
     
  2. Timothy Spurlin

    Timothy Spurlin Active Member

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    You brought up the seal right? Now you dodge the question about the seal.
     
  3. Timothy Spurlin

    Timothy Spurlin Active Member

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    If you were skeptical you would question everything, even the existence of god.
     
  4. Timothy Spurlin

    Timothy Spurlin Active Member

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    What I'm trying to point out is that terms like all loving, benevolent, evil, are subjective terms. So trying to demonstrate your point by concluding that this or that behavior of God or Satan, on those terms is pointless because you may not agree with them as far as what is good and what isn't.

    I gave you examples of when Satan was "released" upon man. Job, after the war in heaven when he is hurled to earth and again after his release from the abyss, so that answers the question of would God allow it. Now you have to understand why he would allow it and determine whether or not you would agree with him being loving. And you may not agree. You may think he's still a monster.

    So here is the reason. This is according to the Bible, and I know you don't believe the Bible, but this is what it has to say.

    When the angel later known as Satan questioned Jehovah's truthfulness in telling Adam that he would die Adam made a decision to accept that and decide for himself what was good and bad. This was a challenge to God's sovereignty that was then presented, not only to Adam but all of his decedents to follow and the angels in heaven as well. It basically raised the question "Can mankind (and therefore the spirit creatures as well) decide for themselves what is good and what is bad without God?"

    Jehovah God decided that it was only fair for this question to be addressed fully. He could have just killed Adam and started all over but that wouldn't have been fair. It wouldn't have been justice, and it wouldn't have allowed the question to be addressed. So he stood back and allowed mankind to address it. So mankind was like a family of people who live in an environment where God doesn't interfere with their experience, the system of their independence without God. This is why God allows suffering, and, of course, Satan's influence.

    God did make some adjustments in order to fix the situation if mankind should choose to do that, and he recorded this in the Bible so people could come to understand what is going on. Unfortunately, religion has transmogrified that to a great extent but the real meaning of it has always been available to mankind.

    He made a nation, Israel, to produce the laws of that nation so the people could understand, and also to produce a way out. The Messiah.

    Now, some people won't have the opportunity to hear that explanation from Jehovah so there will be a resurrection of those people who have no access to the Bible. Those people will be informed of the situation while Satan is imprisoned in the abyss. Then he will be released once more to give those people the opportunity to reject God and follow Satan. But to their destruction. Then, after Satan and his followers, angelic and human are destroyed, as they chose to be, mankind will have the opportunity to live forever without Satan, sickness, ageing, death, crime etc. and all of the suffering that Adam's sin brought about.[/QUOTE]

    Your god is monster, it created evil.
    What objective evidence do you have that your god or Satan are real?
     
  5. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Revelation 5:9 talks about Jesus having been slain. The verse can only be about Jesus because no one else had accomplished the things it mentions him accomplishing. If you read the first 12 chapters of Revelation, even if you only understand a fraction of it, I would think it is apparent that certain things have to take place before Jesus fights the war in heaven with Michael. Including that Jesus has to die for our sins. I really shouldn't have to explain that.

    Nonsense. First of all Jesus isn't God in the flesh. He was created by God. Secondly most Bible scholars, dictionaries, encyclopedias agree that Jesus is Michael, see the recent post of mine with references to that effect. (Link)
     
  6. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    That isn't going to be any more logical if you repeat it enough. It's like you have a chain or crank on your neck that, once pulled or cranked, causes you to say that.

    The Bible exists in the same place the tablets do and can either one of these be tested and peer reviewed? I don't see why not, you tell me.
     
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  7. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Uh, that it created evil?

    The Bible is the best source. You say it makes claims, well, examine those claims. Just be aware that most of the explanations Jewish and Christian sources have to offer are not very good. They are confused by tradition which is heavily influenced by ancient Greek philosophy and pagan nonsense. Hell, immortal soul, trinity, cross, Easter, Christmas, the rapture to name a few. Which if you think about it, is the majority of their teachings.
     
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  8. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Gonna dodge it but I will walk on by, with a song from Seal.

     
  9. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so.

    For example, this sentence will immediatly strike you as wrong:

    "A loving and benevolent parent rapes his children".


    Sounds like you are just defending the obvious monstrocities.

    I don't really care off course because, as you say, I don't believe any of this nonsense.
    But I heavily object to calling such a monster "all loving" and "benevolent".
     
  10. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Not in this context.

    Good evidence is evidence that is independently verifiable.
    Bad evidence is evidence that is not independently verifiable.

    I'm not talking about "good or bad music" or whatever.
    I'm talking about objective standards of evidence.

    Indeed. And the answer is "no".


    No. Love and money objectively exist.
    The rising of the sun does not require faith either, when you understand deterministic forces like gravity and the rotation of the earth.

    All these things are based on very objective evidence.
    No faith required.

    Faith is what you need to accept something as true, when you have no evidence.

    What about it? Still have no idea what you are talking about.
    Which tomb and how is it relevant to the point here?


    No need for any such thing. Look, you insinuated that people are saying science is infallible. All you need to do to support that statement, is by pointing those people out. Can you? Or were you just making stuff up?

    Again, I know of nobody who says or believes such a thing.
    Do you?

    Not "all" of them, obviously.
    But sure, there are those that include such things. For example, quite a few of the records concerning Julius Ceasar depict him as some kind of demigod, or descendent of gods.
    I don't think anyone believes that.
    But we do accept that he invaded Gaul with his legions and conquered it.

    So, why do you think it is, that we accept his conquest campaigns actually happend, but not his divinity?

    Common sense.
    And actual records instead of religious myths.
    Whenever we find tombs of pre-modern medicine times, they almost never contain remains of advanced ages.

    And you believe that religiously.
     
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  11. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Right. But yet, you believe exactly such claims from 2000+ years ago, stemming from a time where superstition was the common order of the day...

    But the bible is just people writing down their claims.... Claims that when made today, you wouldn't believe for the reason you gave above.
    So this is not a justification. You're basically just saying that you believe them, because you believe them.

    A lot. The difference is that there are no contemporary and independent records. No corroborating evidence. Such evidence is very important in historical science. Especially when it concerns extra-ordinary claims.

    If you consider it a waste of time to properly justify your beliefs, that's all on you.

    Indeed we aren't........

    No, they never were supernatural.
    Just like the sun was never supernatural.

    People might have believed that, but that doesn't make it so.
    Another important point here, is that you can't know what is true until you actually know.
    So when claims are made, like "pontius was real", such claims require justification.
    Then when justification comes, the claim is accepted.

    That's how reason works.

    You also can't say for sure that extra-dimensional unicorns or undetectable 7-headed dragons don't exist. So that doesn't really mean much.
     
  12. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Why do you say the Bible is a claim, not evidence?
    Is the Bible in someone's head, or mind, and not tangible?
    How do you view the history on Hannibal of Rome, or Cleopatra of Egypt, or the Incas? Do you view them as claims? What about the Jewish Antiquities of Josephus? What is evidence to you?
    Is what is written in stone different to what is written on papyrus, or leather?
    Do you believe the Cyrus cylinder, Moabite Stone, Babylonian Talmud, and Samaritan Pentateucht, etc., to be just claims, not evidence?
    What are you really saying?
     
  13. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    What? I mean... Pardon me?
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Satan must be very busy with all that working for god as Ha-Satan as the obedient and loyal angel that he is by day and rebellious hell raiser as the Devil by night where he works against god and seeks to corrupt his creation by night. Christians should let him have a break so he can focus on the tasks the Jews gave to him first.
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I don't hear her say that, but you are asking for objective evidence for God,Satan, and Jesus?
    Objective evidence for God - creation
    Objective evidence for Satan - evil
    Objective evidence for Jesus - historical records

    Ask me about these further. Right now, I can't go into details, because today I am off... no, not off my rockers. :D Off for the day.
     
  16. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Aha! So why are papyrus scrolls, not objective evidence?
     
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    The same way you know anything else.
     
  18. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Why would he do that? Rather, why would he not stand with his followers to bring Jehovah to trial for his crimes against the angels and humanity?
    Satan will never be bound, because you cannot bind the spirit of a human who is free. And as long as their are humans who promote pleasures of the flesh and living a life of empowerment, fulfillment, and freedom, Satan will be with us, unbound, spreading the fruits of knowledge and fires of power to humans. Since time immemorial we have been drawn to it, and until the final breath of Homo Sapiens we will value and cherish it.
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Proof? What proof do you have that life evolved from a common ancestor?

    What proof do you have of that?
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    What is this?
     
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