The Big Bang and Evolution

[Valjean]

What I don't understand is that if there is so much evidence why has no one presented any of it. Siti just tried but nothing he said can be proved as being evidence of the BB.

There is no way you can trace the presence of background radiation back to a source billion of yeas ago. That is absurd and anyone with an open mind would know it is.

You're like the Papal envoy who refused to look through Galileo's telescope, saying he refused to look at what the Bible told him was untrue.

The evidence has been presented, linked and should have been taught you beginning in middle school, yet you seem to have missed all of it.

 

[omega2xx]

You're like the Papal envoy who refused to look through Galileo's telescope, saying he refused to look at what the Bible told him was untrue.

The evidence has been presented, linked and should have been taught you beginning in middle school, yet you seem to have missed all of it.

Right, agree with evolution or you just don't understand it. How droll and self serving. The evos in the forum have no idea about genetics so they think opinions are evidence, including you.

To date no real evidence has been presented, verifying you don't know what real scientific evidence is.

 

[Valjean]

There are none so blind...

 

[omega2xx]

There are none so blind...

What an intelligent response. It certainly convinced me. It was much more convincing that some real scientific evidence.

 

[Reggie Miller]

You're like the Papal envoy who refused to look through Galileo's telescope, saying he refused to look at what the Bible told him was untrue.

The evidence has been presented, linked and should have been taught you beginning in middle school, yet you seem to have missed all of it.

Oh, we've seen it. We've seen it for the crock it is.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The Big Bang and Evolution

The big bang of what? What indeed was the big bang, some kind of explosion that from which came out the Universe? What was it that exploded, matter? If so, did matter exist even before the big bang? This idea does not seem to make sense to me! Then, there is evolution; evolution of what, of the Universe? If it is, can I call that, expansion instead? If evolution is of man in particular, could I call that development, physical and intellectual? If NO is the answer to all my questions, do you have what it takes to help me in my lack of understanding?

 

[metis]

The BB was two rapid expansions less than a second apart that took place over 13 billion years ago according to the models. What was there prior to the BB is not known, and there are several hypotheses about this.

As far as evolution is concerned, as far as we can tell everything material evolves, and genes are material things.

 

[Ben Avraham]

The BB was two rapid expansions less than a second apart that took place over 13 billion years ago according to the models. What was there prior to the BB is not known, and there are several hypotheses about this.

As far as evolution is concerned, as far as we can tell everything material evolves, and genes are material things.

Okay Metis, do you have any idea of how long is "less than a second apart?" Not even an electronic mind is able to realize. Anyway, I wonder how this can be relevant. If the explosion aka the big bang was of material things, how can you say that it is unknown what was prior to the BB? Okay, so we now know that the material that caused the big bang was matter. If the big bang gave origin to the Universe, how could matter exist before the Universe? As I can see, atheists still have a long way to go backward to bring up to us something that makes sense. At least I hope this will help them not to laugh at theists.

 

[metis]

Okay Metis, do you have any idea of how long is "less than a second apart?"

It is based on calculations derived from the speed and pattern of our universe, along with something called "red shift". I can't give you the details because I'm not a cosmologist.

Anyway, I wonder how this can be relevant. If the explosion aka the big bang was of material things, how can you say that it is unknown what was prior to the BB?

Because the composition could have been sub-atomic particles or waves (look up Brane Theory for one example), which may or may not be classified as being material.

If the big bang gave origin to the Universe, how could matter exist before the Universe?

Possibly infinity, which is slightly older than I am. .

 

[Repox]

If God exists perhaps the big bang was his way of creating the universe making scientist and Religion correct.

Maybe he is also responsible for evolution.

Evolution doesn't refute God, it just describes how He did it.

 

[Ben Avraham]

It is based on calculations derived from the speed and pattern of our universe, along with something called "red shift". I can't give you the details because I'm not a cosmologist.

Because the composition could have been sub-atomic particles or waves (look up Brane Theory for one example), which may or may not be classified as being material.

Possibly infinity, which is slightly older than I am. .

Well, at least, the last statement above was good for the laughs and gags. God bless you to go on, of course not ad infinitum but at least ad 120 if you can walk handy-in-hand with health.

 

[Valjean]

Right, agree with evolution or you just don't understand it. How droll and self serving. The evos in the forum have no idea about genetics so they think opinions are evidence, including you.

To date no real evidence has been presented, verifying you don't know what real scientific evidence is.

There seem to be almost as many You Tube videos about evolution as there are about cats -- Google.
The evidence was taught you in school. Did you miss it?
We've provided links to various sites. Try: TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy -- browse.

Oh, we've seen it. We've seen it for the crock it is.

Reason and evidence didn't create your beliefs, so I doubt they're going to change them.
If you're going to deliberately ignore evidence, your opinions on the subject are invalid. Why are you even posting?

The big bang of what? What indeed was the big bang, some kind of explosion that from which came out the Universe? What was it that exploded, matter? If so, did matter exist even before the big bang? This idea does not seem to make sense to me! Then, there is evolution; evolution of what, of the Universe? If it is, can I call that, expansion instead? If evolution is of man in particular, could I call that development, physical and intellectual? If NO is the answer to all my questions, do you have what it takes to help me in my lack of understanding?

Physics stopped making sense in 1905, and its description of reality has only become more bizarre with time.
Modern cosmology, relativity and quantum mechanics are very counter-intuitive. Reality simply doesn't correspond to our experience of the world. If you try to apply common sense to physics you'll get nowhere.

 

[sayak83]

The big bang of what? What indeed was the big bang, some kind of explosion that from which came out the Universe? What was it that exploded, matter? If so, did matter exist even before the big bang? This idea does not seem to make sense to me! Then, there is evolution; evolution of what, of the Universe? If it is, can I call that, expansion instead? If evolution is of man in particular, could I call that development, physical and intellectual? If NO is the answer to all my questions, do you have what it takes to help me in my lack of understanding?

What attempts have you made so far to understand any of this?
What books have you read, videos you have watched or courses have you taken on these topics?
Just to know what your exposure is on these topics.

 

[Ben Avraham]

There seem to be almost as many You Tube videos about evolution as there are about cats -- Google. The evidence was taught you in school. Did you miss it? We've provided links to various sites. Try: TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy -- browse. Reason and evidence didn't create your beliefs, so I doubt they're going to change them. If you're going to deliberately ignore evidence, your opinions on the subject are invalid. Why are you even posting? Physics stopped making sense in 1905, and its description of reality has only become more bizarre with time. Modern cosmology, relativity and quantum mechanics are very counter-intuitive. Reality simply doesn't correspond to our experience of the world. If you try to apply common sense to physics you'll get nowhere.

It does not matter when Physics stopped making sense. It never made and still doesn't as long as scientists deny that the Universe could not have caused itself to exist and, by necessity it was caused by something that preceded it. Now, the search must be of what or Who caused the Universe to exist.

 

[Ben Avraham]

What attempts have you made so far to understand any of this?
What books have you read, videos you have watched or courses have you taken on these topics?
Just to know what your exposure is on these topics.

I have been exposed to a lot of nonsense in Science and elsewhere and I have never got any one to explain how can something cause itself to exist and, the only place I have found to rest my feet is in Logic about the impossibility of something to cause itself to exist. So, if things exist, it is because they have been caused by something else or Someone else. Now, that plus the concept of Causality will take us back to the Primal Cause without any doubt whatsoever.

 

[sayak83]

I have been exposed to a lot of nonsense in Science and elsewhere and I have never got any one to explain how can something cause itself to exist and, the only place I have found to rest my feet is in Logic about the impossibility of something to cause itself to exist. So, if things exist, it is because they have been caused by something else or Someone else. Now, that plus the concept of Causality will take us back to the Primal Cause without any doubt whatsoever.

That is not a direct answer. What have you read about physics, or watched or taken courses?
All we ever observer is the transformation of the states of already existing things, making it quite plausible that things have always existed and will always continue to exist while the laws of physics will tell us how they transmute from one state or phase to another state of phase.

 

[sayak83]

It does not matter when Physics stopped making sense. It never made and still doesn't as long as scientists deny that the Universe could not have caused itself to exist and, by necessity it was caused by something that preceded it. Now, the search must be of what or Who caused the Universe to exist.

Rubbish. Mere opinion. Physics does not make sense to you. Physics, its laws and predictions continue to make sense of the world and predict its patterns with astounding efficacy no matter what you think.

 

[idav]

It does not matter when Physics stopped making sense. It never made and still doesn't as long as scientists deny that the Universe could not have caused itself to exist and, by necessity it was caused by something that preceded it. Now, the search must be of what or Who caused the Universe to exist.

It's not scientists job to explain existence to you. You don't have to like the facts but BB is pretty well established. We would have to deny our own ability to observe things to deny the BB.

 

[omega2xx]

There seem to be many You Tube videos about evolution as there are about cats -- Google.

No, even then I rejected it, because to belive all life we see today originated from one source that they don't even know what it was, it the height of gullibility.

We've provided links to various sites. Try: TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy -- browse.

I have told you why I have quit checking links and ask all of you to cut and paste e4he evidence they provided. Strange, not one has been willing to do that. IMO some have started to but then a great light shined upon them, what they said was evidence was not really scientific. Feel free to take my challenge and show everyone how ignorant I am. As I peer into my crystal ball, I see val not accepting my challange, as simple as it is.

Reason and evidence didn't create your beliefs, so I doubt they're going to change them.

Both created my beliefs. Reason before I was converted, lack of evidence after. To believe that all life,animal and plant life originated from some unknown source, is beyond belief. If you think there is scientific evidence for evolution, you the victim of your indoctrination.

If you're going to deliberately ignore evidence, your opinions on the subject are invalid. Why are you even posting?]

To present the evidence that the TOE is not based on science.

Physics stopped making sense in 1905, and its description of reality has only become more bizarre with time.
Modern cosmology, relativity and quantum mechanics are very counter-intuitive. Reality simply doesn't correspond to our experience of the world. If you try to apply common sense to physics you'll get nowhere.

That is pure bolony. All real science is based on common sense. It is things like "string theory" that will get you nowhere.

To the average person it might seem obvious that nothing can happen in nothing, but to the quantum physicist, nothing is something---"Brad Lemly

 

[Valjean]

It does not matter when Physics stopped making sense. It never made and still doesn't as long as scientists deny that the Universe could not have caused itself to exist and, by necessity it was caused by something that preceded it. Now, the search must be of what or Who caused the Universe to exist.

And if evidence for such a thing be found you can be sure science will report it.
The point is, if you try to apply the rules you see all around you in your everyday life you'll never understand reality.

I have been exposed to a lot of nonsense in Science and elsewhere and I have never got any one to explain how can something cause itself to exist and, the only place I have found to rest my feet is in Logic about the impossibility of something to cause itself to exist. So, if things exist, it is because they have been caused by something else or Someone else. Now, that plus the concept of Causality will take us back to the Primal Cause without any doubt whatsoever.

In physics today, if it seems to make sense you probably aren't understanding it.
How do you judge what is nonsense, if you admit you've never had anyone explain the principles of cosmology to you and, presumably, have never read anything about them?