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Featured The Bible - Why Trust It

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by nPeace, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    it would qualify as a meta-claim.
     
  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Can you explain without scripture what jesus meant when he said his apostles were looking to scripture to find him rather than who the scriptures spoke of?
     
    #142 Unveiled Artist, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  3. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    True
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I notice you mention ' when Jesus said to his apostles ' yet I find in the 5th chapter of John that Jesus is addressing the Jews (Not apostles) notice starting from John 5:10 onward. So, the ' you ' is Not any apostles but the Jews.
    So, what Jesus meant when he said the 'Jews' were looking to Scripture to find him.....
    The apostles believed in Jesus, but those Jews 'ye' of John 5:38 + did Not.
     
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Since Jesus taught at John 17:17 that Scripture is religious truth, then in that sense, what Jesus taught was the absolute truth about his God.
     
  6. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    The jews were supposed to look to christ not to scripture. Why would you find christ in scripture when he the jews not to look to scripture but to the one the scriputre speaks of?

    Why would you be different thant he jews he was speaking to when he said not to look to scripture but to the one the scripture speaks of>
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find the Jews had the Scriptures ( as does Christendom which is Christian mostly in name only ).
    They felt they had eternal life because they had the Scriptures. ( so does apostate Christendom today )
    What those Jews were ignoring was that those Scriptures were leading up to Messiah coming.
    A lot wanted a political Messiah (king) to act in their day or time frame, and were mad at Jesus as per John 6:15.
    So, those corrupted Jews were Not like the common people who were living in ' expectation ' of Messiah's arrival in the first century as per Luke 3:15. However those Jews versed in the law failed to accept Jesus as Messiah.
    So, how could those Jews believe when they were 'accepting glory from one another' and Not seeking the glory that is from the only God as per John 5:44.
     
  8. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Jesus even said 'i am the truth"
    and that said several ways
     
    #148 whirlingmerc, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Thats my point. If you didnt have scriptures, would you have christ?

    You do understand what Im asking?

    Never did like the language; it distracts your points.

    Instead of corrupted jews, they are just jews that dont follow christian beliefs. They still dont.

    The question is jesus told the jews why would they look to scripure when scripture talks abuot him/christ?

    Im not concerned over who is corrupted and why this group of people have eternal life and those jews not. I dont talk that way; not my morals. Im just focused on christ told the jews they are looking to scripture and they are supposed to be looking to christ.

    Are you not doing the same as the jews: looking to scripture rather than talking about christ with whom scripture is about? (which means you can speak of christ without using scriptures to validate yuor statements)?

    edited: this new tablet keyboard is doing this post no justice`!
     
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  10. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is 'the word made flesh' after all
     
  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Of course we would Not know about Christ without Scripture.
    Just as without Scripture we would Not know about Moses, Abraham, etc.
    I was referring to the corrupted or un-faithful Jews in the first century as recorded in Scripture.
    Yes, there are Jews today in the Soncino which speaks of their disparaging of Christ.
    So, they still don't follow Christian beliefs and most apparently will not.
     
  12. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    So... there IS a mediator — or “middle man.” According to Timothy.
     
  13. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    How did disciples know about Jesus who never met him for the 40-50 years until the gospels appeared?
     
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  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Skipping the corrupted comment. Jesus says you look to scriptures as if it has eternal life; even they speak on my behalf.

    Unless this scripture does not apply to you (and many others if it does not), why do you look to scriptures as if it holds eternal life rather than the person scriptures speaks of?
     
  15. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    And yet, some scripture was lost. Thomas, for example, was lost and not recovered until too late. Q is not extant as a stand-alone document.
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Yeah. I think they are missing something crucial. The Word is the Creator's dictations (laws of Moses for example). No one listened so he made his Word flesh/incarnate so his Word/Oral Laws can "walk among the people" and offer salvation. It says nothing abuot scripures as part of the salvational deal.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find that Jesus, the teachings of Jesus, are only found between the pages of Scripture.
    The two ( Scripture and Jesus ) are inseparable.

    Remember Jesus was speaking or addressing those opposing Jews against him.
    They had the Scriptures ( as does apostate Christendom today ) but they chose to ignore Jesus.
     
  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Sorry. How are you not worshiping jesus when you pray to god you pray in the name of jesus? You dont have to say "I worship you jesus" to put him at such high importance, he can act as gods go-between himself.
     
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  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    We read about salvation in Scripture, such as I find at Matthew 20:28, that Jesus' ransom covers many.
     
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Right. We take literacy for granted. In Jesus’ time (and before), most people couldn’t read, and most writing took place on soft clay tablets. Most things weren’t written down, but transmitted orally. The written word is a comparatively recent development in Christendom.
     
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