The Bible verses religion.

[outhouse]

all sources about Jesus derive from hearsay accounts.

True.

Courts of law do not generally allow hearsay as testimony

False.

Learn law, I did. hearsay is fine with the proper exceptions. example excited utterance.

There are 2 rules to hearsay, #1 find the proper exception, #2 refer to rule number 1.

and nor does honest modern scholarship

Your way off base here. Most all of history from this period was hearsay and second hand sources.

Hearsay does not provide good evidence, and therefore, we should dismiss it

People have hanged by hearsay evidence alone it can be very credible.

We would have to throw many historical books and characters out the window if we used this poor methodology.

 

[outhouse]

Paul alone is great evidence.

Why would he be writing about a crucified man 15 ish years after his death?

Why would Marks gospel 35 years later, place him in front a half million people?

And what you don't know is Marks gospel was a compilation of long standing written and oral traditions.

The passion was probably already written and in circulation long before it was compiled into that communities work

 

[psychoslice]

Nope bud. I started out a mythicist, and explored every single avenue.

The day I woke up was the day I realized Romans would not make a peasant rebellious illiterate Aramaic Jew a deity unless that is what they were stuck with and had no choice.

Until someone comes up with a replacement hypothesis that makes sense and the best have tried, he will remain a historical character.

The man has historicity

Ok then we will leave it at that, you have your hypothesis, and I have my historical evidence.

 

[truthofscripture]

Nope bud. I started out a mythicist, and explored every single avenue.

The day I woke up was the day I realized Romans would not make a peasant rebellious illiterate Aramaic Jew a deity unless that is what they were stuck with and had no choice.

Until someone comes up with a replacement hypothesis that makes sense and the best have tried, he will remain a historical character.

The man has historicity

The Romans didn't have anything to do with God sending Jesus to Earth to fulfill one covenant and institute another. They had nothing to do with Jesus doing the single most important thing in the history of humanity either. That is a pretty silly postulation.

 

[outhouse]

Ok then we will leave it at that, you have your hypothesis, and I have my historical evidence.

You don't have any for a mythical origin of Jesus, nor do you have a hypothesis that explains the evidence we have.

 

[outhouse]

The Romans didn't have anything to do with God sending Jesus to Earth to fulfill one covenant and institute another. They had nothing to do with Jesus doing the single most important thing in the history of humanity either. That is a pretty silly postulation.

Apologetic faith, is not part of historical studies.

Romans put him to death.

His theology and mythology grew in the Roman Empire, not in Israel.

 

[psychoslice]

You don't have any for a mythical origin of Jesus, nor do you have a hypothesis that explains the evidence we have.

Your mind is made up, that is your prison not mine.

 

[outhouse]

Your mind is made up, that is your prison not mine.

No prison.

Two universities, and countless hours reading and debating with professors and scholars, have led me down a different path that actually hold a consensus view he is historical.

 

[truthofscripture]

Apologetic faith, is not part of historical studies.

Romans put him to death.

His theology and mythology grew in the Roman Empire, not in Israel.

Where they "grew" has no effect upon the origins. That's just a very silly thing to believe.

 

[outhouse]

Where they "grew" has no effect upon the origins. That's just a very silly thing to believe.

Christianity you know is product of the Roman environment.

Jesus was martyred after death, but he was viewed as blasphemous in Judaism because he was not their messiah. Only the Hellenistic Jews and Romans found value in his theology after his death.

Lets look at this a different way. Where do you think the movement started? And lest answer that Galilee. Correct.

But then Jesus died, and the movement died in Galilee.

Why did it start up again for the most part out of Israel? and where do you think it started after his death?

 

[truthofscripture]

Christianity you know is product of the Roman environment.

Jesus was martyred after death, but he was viewed as blasphemous in Judaism because he was not their messiah. Only the Hellenistic Jews and Romans found value in his theology after his death.

Lets look at this a different way. Where do you think the movement started? And lest answer that Galilee. Correct.

But then Jesus died, and the movement died in Galilee.

Why did it start up again for the most part out of Israel? and where do you think it started after his death?

Certainly not. Christendom is a product of the Roman state religion, the Roman Church. Christianity on the other hand, most certainly is not.

 

[psychoslice]

No prison.

Two universities, and countless hours reading and debating with professors and scholars, have led me down a different path that actually hold a consensus view he is historical.

So what ?, doesn't mean you know the truth, if you do your the only one ever to do so, can you admit that you might not know the truth ?.

 

[outhouse]

So what ?, doesn't mean you know the truth

I bet I do.

, if you do your the only one ever to do so

Wrong, I follow a very long line of educated people on the topic. My views are no different from any professor.

, can you admit that you might not know the truth ?.

Not on this topic. Education usually brings anyone closer to the truth.

A historical Jesus is a certainty actually.

 

[psychoslice]

I bet I do.




Wrong, I follow a very long line of educated people on the topic. My views are no different from any professor.



Not on this topic. Education usually brings anyone closer to the truth.

A historical Jesus is a certainty actually.

Well I'm sorry but I cannot compete with your superior knowledge.

 

[outhouse]

Well I'm sorry but I cannot compete with your superior knowledge.

Its not that as much as I am still trying to add to the cultural/social and physical anthropology on a daily basis.

Knowing how the people actually lived their daily lives, what they thought and believed, gives strength to understand why they wrote the rhetoric they did.


Sample Chapter for Levine, A., Allison, D., Jr., Crossan, J.D., eds.: The Historical Jesus in Context.

If you can understand and follow about 3% of that get back with me. Im at 20% and have a long way to go.

 

[Unification]

This statement is irrational. What Christians have accepted as the words of Jesus in the canonized gospels record Jesus' words as an apocalyptic Jewish prophet. Contrary to Paul's teaching of freedom from the law, he taught a strict flavor of Judaism. Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law... (ASV). Are you saying that post-resurrection Jesus changed his mind and revealed his new teaching through Paul? What about contradictory Christian writings? Do all of them speak for Jesus? What a strange, irrational belief...

The old became the new numerous times even in the Torah and all throughout the OT. Heaven and earth passed away numerous times for individuals in the Hebrew Scriptures

Jesus taught a kingdom and law within and not of this world, and challenged those who took such laws literally and outwardly erring in the scripture.

No minds were changed. God has always been the same. It's how one perceives the law, what it truly says, and what it truly means. Most Christians have no idea what Jesus even taught, and Paul for that matter.

 

[Unification]

I bet I do.




Wrong, I follow a very long line of educated people on the topic. My views are no different from any professor.



Not on this topic. Education usually brings anyone closer to the truth.

A historical Jesus is a certainty actually.

A wise man once said something true and of higher conscious:

The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.
Albert Einstein

 

[outhouse]

God has always been the same.

Unsubstantiated rhetorical opinion.


If we can say anything about a deity, is that the definition has factually changed, depending on who is defining the concept.

One thing is close to factual as it can be. All religions describe the concept differently, and the difference between me and you is very simple.

You think one deity out of thousands of them is real. You think one primitive religion got it right. I think none got it right.

I just think they all described the mythology that was important to each culture mirroring their own needs.

 

[psychoslice]

Its not that as much as I am still trying to add to the cultural/social and physical anthropology on a daily basis.

Knowing how the people actually lived their daily lives, what they thought and believed, gives strength to understand why they wrote the rhetoric they did.


Sample Chapter for Levine, A., Allison, D., Jr., Crossan, J.D., eds.: The Historical Jesus in Context.

If you can understand and follow about 3% of that get back with me. Im at 20% and have a long way to go.

Before I read this, could I ask you if you believe in the Jesus that is in the new testament, that he actually did all those so called miracles, like walking on water, turning the water into wine and all the rest, and does this link believe in that same Jesus as well ?.

 

[outhouse]

A wise man once said something true and of higher conscious:

The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.
Albert Einstein

Fine and dandy in its context, just remember this, if you go to church, your listening to someone who was required to have an education.

To deny or talk down to education, is to admit fanaticism and fundamentalism.