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Featured The bible stories and God. Do you accept both as truth or only parts

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by We Never Know, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    If you believe in the god of the bible, do you also accept the bible as non-fiction?

    If you believe the(or some) bible stories are fiction, why do you believe in the god from the bible?

    When believers pick and chose from the bible on what they believe or deny, isn't that them in a sense making their own belief?

    For example...if you deny the bible story's of Noah, deny Adam and Eve made from the dust, etc....
    Then why do you believe the story of a god at all?
     
    #1 We Never Know, Jun 24, 2021
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  2. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    because stories can be valuable as metaphors, etc. They don't have to be literally true to be entertaining, or to carry meaning...
     
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  3. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Why does it have to be all or nothing?
     
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  4. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Why would your expect truth out of falsness?
     
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  5. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    So for example a god creating humans from dust might be false but the story of a god would still be true?

    Or the story of Noah might be false but the story of a god still true?

    It there is a god that can do those things. why would a story have to made up about it?
     
  6. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Ah, so since the mustard seed is not the smallest seed, throw out the whole Bible....
     
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  7. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
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    Actually, this is one of the things that tore apart my Christian faith. I was raised under the impression that the Bible was a literal, infallible, perfect account of all existence. When I found this not to be the case under critical study, that's when the cracks formed for me. At that time, it became just another "man made text."

    In retrospect, I do find beauty in the literary qualities of the Bible, and it's an invaluable window into ancient Hebrew/Christian cultures and beliefs. There's also beauty in all those other scriptures I just disregarded as "man made texts." There are some really good and useful things in the bible that I continue to utilize today. My ideas on what the Bible are have changed though, and in my opinion, they have matured.
     
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  8. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    For me personally, it was not the Bible that did Christianity in.
    It was the Christians.
     
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  9. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    People are storytellers. They live in social groups, and they tell stories to each other about Who they are, Where they came from, and so on.

    Sometimes, stories might be valuable as a part of a people's understanding of who, what, why, when, where and how. It might help for people to have some explanation about some aspects of their existence, without it having to demonstrably literally true.

    It's also possible that a story might be valuable because it's entertaining.

    Such a story itself may not say anything at all about deity, beyond it being a part of the stories people tell about wwwww&h.
     
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  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I believe in God. Belief does not require facts. I think that everyone should realize that the Bible isn't about facts.

    I am a fan of children's books and there are great lessons in them. But, even a child knows for sure that they are stories.
     
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  11. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
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    I actually had really good experiences with Christians. It's one reason I still tried to find other Christ like gods (such as Ahura Mazda) after I left Christianity. I loved Christ - wasn't a fan of (Evangelical) Yahweh.
     
    #11 SigurdReginson, Jun 24, 2021
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  12. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    The Bible itself says that "the letter killeth...". So those who believe in the letter are missing the point.
     
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  13. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    Even if "magic" is used to explain how the paranormal events of the Jewish Exodus story could have actually took place, it still appears there was no mass exodus of Jews out of Egypt to the Jewish promise land.; hence, even in the presence of miracles, it appears the tale of the Jewish Exodus is mythological rather than historical.

    "The alleged biblical plagues infesting Egypt would have totally devastated Egypt, yet this devastation of Egypt is never mentioned anywhere outside of the Bible. An Egypt weakened by plagues, death of its firstborn sons, and drowning of its army would have been noticed by its neighbors and such a devastated Egypt likely would have been taken advantage of by one of its neighboring rivals, yet none of that ever happened. Egypt's rivals certainly wouldn't have had an incentive to cover up such disasters to Egypt of biblical proportions.

    The consensus of modern scholars is that the Bible does not give an accurate account of the origins of Israel.

    Reference: Davies, Philip R. (2015). In Search of 'Ancient Israel': A Study in Biblical Origins. Bloomsbury Publishing. ISBN 9780567662996.

    There is no indication that the Israelites ever lived in Ancient Egypt, and the Sinai Peninsula shows almost no sign of any occupation for the entire 2nd millennium BCE (even Kadesh-Barnea, where the Israelites are said to have spent 38 years, was uninhabited prior to the establishment of the Israelite monarchy).

    Reference: Redmount, Carol A. (2001) [1998]. "Bitter Lives: Israel In And Out of Egypt". In Coogan, Michael D. The Oxford History of the Biblical World. OUP.ISBN 9780199881482.

    In contrast to the absence of evidence for the Egyptian captivity and wilderness wanderings, there are ample signs of Israel's evolution within Canaan from native Canaanite roots.

    Reference: Barmash, Pamela (2015b). "Out of the Mists of History: The Exaltation of the Exodus in the Bible". In Barmash, Pamela; Nelson, W. David. Exodus in the Jewish Experience: Echoes and Reverberations. Lexington Books. pp. 1–22.ISBN 9781498502931.

    While a few scholars discuss the historicity, or at least plausibility, of the Exodus story, the majority of archaeologists have abandoned it, in the phrase used by archaeologist William Dever, as "a fruitless pursuit.

    References: Moore, Megan Bishop; Kelle, Brad E. (2011). Biblical History and Israel's Past. Eerdmans. ISBN 9780802862600. Dever, William (2001). What Did the Biblical Writers Know, and When Did They Know It?. Eerdmans. ISBN 3927120375.

    So then, we here should all agree that the tale of the Jewish Exodus from Egypt and subsequent events of Jews wandering around lost in the desert until reaching their promise land never actually happened . .. Right?
     
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  14. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    To believe in the whole bible as literally true one has to have a specific skill known as "doublethink", i.e. believing in two contradictory things without suffering from major cognitive dissonance. Not everyone has that skill, especially not people whose IQ is above room temperature.
     
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  15. Batya

    Batya Always Forward

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    I believe in the God of the bible, and I believe that it is non-fiction and that the stories are true. Yes, yes, I know that invites all kinds of opinions and supposed evidence why this can't be true and that can't be true, but that is my belief. I believe one day the hidden things will be revealed, and until then, I'm not really into debating about it. :)
     
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  16. Jeremiah Ames

    Jeremiah Ames Active Member

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    ain’t that the truth
     
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  17. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Grēne Mann
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    I'm going to disagree with you there... Sometimes being able to reason one's self into believing some unavoidably contradictory things requires an exceedingly advanced level of mental gymnastics. Some of the smartest people I've known in life have also been the most deluded...
     
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  18. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. But if you dont think the great Noah world flood happened, or Jesus was reserected, or man was created from dust, or eve was created from his rib, or a god created earth, or a god created the universe, or a god created life, or etc. What's left to be truth?
     
  19. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    So do you still believe the bible but doubt christians?
     
  20. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Of course, smart people can resolve some contradictions. But that requires, as you say, mental gymnastics, i.e. applying some interpretation to the text. So they do not believe the bible to be literally true.
     
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