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Featured The Bible made a mess of Christianity

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by PopeADope, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Christians became a lot more divided and splintered into thousands of denominations after the printing press when everyone could have their own personal copy of the Bible.

    The Bible has verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite beliefs.

    There has to be an authority outside of scripture to settle those disputes.

    I was in a psych ward with a guy that ripped his eyes out because scripture told him to.

    Scripture can be dangerous.

    The early Church had councils to settle such disputes.

    The first Christians were not Bible Christians.

    The Bible is a confusing book that was never meant to be the sole rule of sacred Theology. Nothing in the Bible says to test everything to see if it lines up with scripture. The opposite is actually proven true (Acts 15).

    If the Church councils aren't guided by the holy Spirit, I see there is a hopeless division that will never be healed. Certainly knowing scripture does not solve the problem.
     
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  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    You hand a book like the Bible to people without any authoritative explanation as to its meaning or content people will create all kinds of wild ideas to fit some religious narrative.
     
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  3. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    No where does the bible say that the word of God is limited to the Bible... God has been known to change his mind and make what was formerly forbidden permitted... God has even been known to tell people to do the opposite of what scripture says
     
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  4. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    From its beginning Christianity had a different basis for getting information about God. E.g.:
    37If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 1 Cor 14

    1Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Gal 6
     
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  5. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why we would blame the Bible for what people do.

    IMV, had it not been for the printing press, those in authority would have continued using the words of the prophets and apostles for their own gain. I see it as a return to freedom and although freedom does create some difficulties, it is still the best IMV>

    Yes, He does change some positions and I think He does it with purpose. We can figure out the reasons in my view.

    Why do you think these words are penned?

    Revelation 22:18
    For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    Deuteronomy 4:2
    Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

    Regardles of its application, what I do know is that God will not tell you do something that violates His word.
     
  6. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    The religion that came out of Rome( 2Thess 2:3) thousands of branches off of that tree. Jesus started one single religion( 1Corinthians 1:10) It was not that one--Most were murdered in Jesus religion back then, It went underground at best--But God has promised that here in these last days truth will become abundant--it has.--rejected by the majority. Just like back then.
    34,000 trinity religions-Mark 3:24-26--a house divided will not stand.
    That narrows the choice.
    Catholicism translating errors rule a Trinitarians life and the twisting of it into confusion by the branches as well.
     
  7. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Context is everything. Those books were referring to those books....may I ask who added or took away from those books?
     
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  8. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    The Catholic Church decided which books would be in your new testament Canon at the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo.... If the Catholic church is so evil, why do you trust that you have the correct Canon of scripture?
     
  9. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    15"But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Cor 2
     
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  10. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man.

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    I think that's why the early Catholic Church historically didn't want people to have Bibles provided people were literate enough to read. They feared contamination from Catholic traditions and beliefs. They were kept exclusive just for clergy to interpret and teach from aside from the fact that Bibles were handwritten, and of course took a long long time to make.

    Of course then came along Martin Luther, and then you know the rest of the story....

    In my own opinion, the Bible of course is thought up of, and handmade by people so it follows suit as to what would occur.

    As with the case, such a work just like any other literary work, especially in the realm of religion, multiple meanings can arise and be attributed in various manners by how it's being viewed and read.

    When you think about it, this is actually true for any religious book made from or for any religion out there. It's only natural to see splintering and division of opinion and perspectives occur. It'll happen every time.

    It also illustrates another bullet point that in actuality as it applies primarily to theistic religion that has literary text and scriptures, there is in fact no spirit or deity that communicates in order to point people in the right direction as to what religious literary works say or mean.
     
  11. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    Early Catholic Church knew that they did not have Greek Original MSS.
     
  12. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Yes... I realize that your statement just may be right...

    Thus my last statement "regardless, God won't tell you to do something that is contrary to what He said".

    Also, to reiterate, praise God for the printing press. There isn't that much a difference in the denominations any more.
     
  13. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    God did ask the apostles to go against his word.. at the Council of Jerusalem the Holy Spirit moved them to no longer follow the law of Moses and circumcision. (Acts 15)
     
  14. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    That totally contradicted all the scriptures that were available at that time... The Holy Spirit can instruct church leaders to do even what the word of God says is forbidden...God does as he pleases and can change his mind
     
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  15. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus In The Circle Of Falsehood, Which Is Untrue

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    I'm not a Christian (obviously) but the Bible is a great sacred text. Like everything under the sun, it has it's goods and bads, understandably.

    It's people themselves that make a mess of things and use their own interpretations to be destructive or impose on others. Which is sadly one of the big downfalls of the idea of religious beliefs :(
     
  16. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    That is an absolutely brilliant question - for all non-Catholic Christians. In fact, the RC Church tolerates more deviation from its own canon of scripture than almost any of the Protestant denominations. Many of them (most of them) also subscribe to the authority of the Church Fathers, like Irenaeus, on the subjects of authorship etc. and Irenaeus was known, from very early on, to have been confused and mistaken about the identities of some of the supposed authors of scripture - like the Apostle John for example. He was called on some of these by Eusebius but Protestants and Catholics alike still accept the mistaken authorship traditions he invented. Really odd given that they are all hell-bent (so to speak) on establishing the veracity and validity of God's revelation to humankind.

    Anyway, I think its a really good question - if you are a Bible-thumping Protestant or Evangelical Christian of any variety (including JWs) - how do you know that the canon of the Bible you now have is the right one - given that this canon was established by the supposedly apostate Roman Church?
     
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  17. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Amen! Preach it brother! :D
     
  18. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Not really, a New Covenant had started. The Mosaic covenant was a parentheticsl covenant that was covered during the time between Moses and and Jesus.
     
  19. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    And where did they test this "new covenant" that was so against the sacred text? It didn't line up with scripture. This proves scripture doesn't need to be the rule by which all is tested

    Who determines what part of the OT needs to be heeded?
     
  20. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Matthew 5:17
    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;

    As I said, they went against God's word....where did Jesus say the Mosaic law didn't have to be followed?
     
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