The Bible, its Pussyfooting Translators, and its Lack of Veracity

[Skwim]

The following is intended to bring out the fact that some of the Bible's translators deliberately pussyfooted around its more difficult/embarrassing passages, very likely to more easily sell Christianity, but in turn torpedoed its veracity. Hardly an admirable enterprise, especially by those who expect us to believe they're dedicated to God's "truth."

My example is Isaiah 45:7 (a verse I've used before for other reasons) wherein God says:

(KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

In examining 30 different translations I found the Hebrew רַ רַע (ra`) is given nine different meanings. By far the most common and probably most demeaning to God is "evil," as noted above in the King James Version. Evil exists because God deliberately creates it---please note that the word is "creates" and not "created." God continues to create evil---anyone care to make a guess as to why?.

"Evil" occurs in 14 (47%) of the 30 translations I looked at. Reasoning that no translator would select a word that is more unfavorable to god than not, and that "evil" is the predominant translation, I think it's fair to conclude it's most likely the correct translation: God said he creates evil. So what about those translations that don't translate רַ רַע (ra`) as "evil"?

That's where I believe the pussyfooting comes in. In the other 16 translations of Isaiah 45:7 the translators chose not to tell the reader that god creates evil---God forbid!---but that he does something far less dastardly. Five of them say he creates "disasters," and three of them say he creates "calamity." Two of them say he creates "troubles," whereas another two say he creates "woe." The other four individually say he creates, "bad times," "discord," "doom," and "hard times." This is quite a spread, going from a god who creates evil to a god who only creates hard times. The point here isn't that various translators wrote conflicting things about god, but the implication behind the why of it. The implication, as I see it, being: If the translators have no compunctions about how they present the nature of God in order to save his image, something I would think to be sacrosanct, how can they be trusted not to have changed other equally important "facts" in the Bible? An attempt, more likely than not, to preserve their theology, and make Christianity an easier sell. If, in fact, "evil" is what God actually said then 53% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers. AND, if "hard times" is, for instance, what God actually said, then 94% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers.

My conclusion: So much for the claimed veracity of the Bible and those who translated it. At least half the translators couldn't bring themselves to tell the truth because they felt it would not only hurt their image of God, but hurt Christianity as well.
If you feel I've got it wrong here I welcome a better explanation for the translator's pussyfooting. AND why one shouldn't be suspicious of everything in the Bible.


.

 

[JakofHearts]

https://imgur.com/rKFm5t4

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The following is intended to bring out the fact that some of the Bible's translators deliberately pussyfooted around its more difficult/embarrassing passages, very likely to more easily sell Christianity, but in turn torpedoed its veracity. Hardly an admirable enterprise, especially by those who expect us to believe they're dedicated to God's "truth."

My example is Isaiah 45:7 (a verse I've used before for other reasons) wherein God says:

(KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

In examining 30 different translations I found the Hebrew רַ רַע (ra`) is given nine different meanings. By far the most common and probably most demeaning to God is "evil," as noted above in the King James Version. Evil exists because God deliberately creates it---please note that the word is "creates" and not "created." God continues to create evil---anyone care to make a guess as to why?.

"Evil" occurs in 14 (47%) of the 30 translations I looked at. Reasoning that no translator would select a word that is more unfavorable to god than not, and that "evil" is the predominant translation, I think it's fair to conclude it's most likely the correct translation: God said he creates evil. So what about those translations that don't translate רַ רַע (ra`) as "evil"?

That's where I believe the pussyfooting comes in. In the other 16 translations of Isaiah 45:7 the translators chose not to tell the reader that god creates evil---God forbid!---but that he does something far less dastardly. Five of them say he creates "disasters," and three of them say he creates "calamity." Two of them say he creates "troubles," whereas another two say he creates "woe." The other four individually say he creates, "bad times," "discord," "doom," and "hard times." This is quite a spread, going from a god who creates evil to a god who only creates hard times. The point here isn't that various translators wrote conflicting things about god, but the implication behind the why of it. The implication, as I see it, being: If the translators have no compunctions about how they present the nature of God in order to save his image, something I would think to be sacrosanct, how can they be trusted not to have changed other equally important "facts" in the Bible? An attempt, more likely than not, to preserve their theology, and make Christianity an easier sell. If, in fact, "evil" is what God actually said then 53% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers. AND, if "hard times" is, for instance, what God actually said, then 94% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers.

My conclusion: So much for the claimed veracity of the Bible and those who translated it. At least half the translators couldn't bring themselves to tell the truth because they felt it would not only hurt their image of God, but hurt Christianity as well.
If you feel I've got it wrong here I welcome a better explanation for the translator's pussyfooting. AND why one shouldn't be suspicious of everything in the Bible.


.

Not to debate or anything, , do you ever question the (Quran and Hadith), the (Vedas and The Upanishads), The Tripiṭaka, the Hadith, (Mishnah, Talmud, Midrash), Bahá'í writings, Agamas, and/or The Avesta.

Just wonderin'

 

[Desert Snake]

Actually, I'm not sure about this. If Eve was the first sinner, then although sin or evil was created, it was Chavvah /the first sinner!

who might be responsible

 

[Skwim]

Not to debate or anything, , do you ever question the (Quran and Hadith), the (Vedas and The Upanishads), The Tripiṭaka, the Hadith, (Mishnah, Talmud, Midrash), Bahá'í writings, Agamas, and/or The Avesta.

Just wonderin'

Nope, because I know next to nothing about them.


.

 

[NoGuru]

I'm your huckleberry

The following is intended to bring out the fact that some of the Bible's translators deliberately pussyfooted around its more difficult/embarrassing passages, very likely to more easily sell Christianity, but in turn torpedoed its veracity. Hardly an admirable enterprise, especially by those who expect us to believe they're dedicated to God's "truth."

You mean the translators were regular people? Like how some nasty things in most of the "Terms and Conditions" you agree to have nefarious intent yet they sound all nice and proper in the document?

/sarcasm

I would expect nothing different. Let's say you have a church to get some money. Are you going to tell your patrons that God is a wack job? Well... no! Then you'd never get that money you wanted! Religion is a wack job! Plain and simple. I would call myself spiritual, but just about every church or establishment (IMHO) is a scam. A group of people who go to get together, hear things they all agree with, and tip on the way out. As long as that tip ensures their eternal life, why question it? Ignorance really is bliss.

My example is Isaiah 45:7 (a verse I've used before for other reasons) wherein God says:

(KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

In examining 30 different translations I found the Hebrew רַ רַע (ra`) is given nine different meanings. By far the most common and probably most demeaning to God is "evil," as noted above in the King James Version. Evil exists because God deliberately creates it---please note that the word is "creates" and not "created." God continues to create evil---anyone care to make a guess as to why?.

[...]

Ooo Ooo! Pick me!

I would venture to guess that if there is a God, and if said God were to create evil, it would be for the refinement of the end product... and hear me out here.

Imagine you were a sword that for the sake of this illustration felt pain. Now your blacksmith is going to turn you into a plow sheer. First, he needs to stick you into a fire. Not too pleasant of an experience I'm guessing. He pulls you out of the fire, and just when you start feeling a bit better, he starts wailing on you with a hammer. What a jerk, right!? He stops hitting you and puts you in a bucket. Deep sigh of relief. But wait, he picks you back up and throws you right back into the fire??!??! Sonofa!

No, I imagine that experience would be pretty rough. Going through it, I bet you'd curse the blacksmith every time he struck you or put you in the fire. However, once all is said and done, imagine what good you could accomplish and what a fine product you've become. All because of "Evil."

* * *

The debate of whether God exists or not... who knows? If he's good or evil... again, who knows? Nobody here (e.g. on this planet) can definitively say one way or the other on anything relating to something we cannot prove, nor understand if said thing is as advertised. So what's the point of attacking a self proving book? The Bible is divine because it says it is. People believe that to be true. Go up to one and say otherwise and you're just inviting an argument you can't win. Not because what you're saying is necessarily wrong or otherwise, but because people change internally, and rarely from someone attacking their beliefs.

In the reality you live in, you have views that are supported by evidence (empirical or otherwise). The reality that this evidence supports makes you believe N things, which are all verifiable and 100% accurate... in your view. Remember however, that there exist people who hold the exact opposite beliefs and feel exactly the way you do, about all of it. Even the earth being flat! And the kicker is; you cannot prove them wrong. I get the absurdity of that, but can you? Can you show them the earth is round? And before you start with videos and pictures... can you prove those aren't doctored?

The entire human race is at an impasse of ideals. Some believe some crazy stuff, and others make sense. You have to realize though that to the others, you're the crazy one. And that's the world we've always lived in.. a constantly evolving view of itself with some major ideals spanning a few thousand years. In a few hundred or so, {Major Religion} may be outed and replaced by {New Major Religion}.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think this is up in the air. Going by the pentateuch if the people keep the Sabbath and the laws, then this brings them light and peace, but if they don't then they invite plagues and war. There is a list of blessings and a list of curses on them depending upon what they choose, thus either good or evil comes based upon their choice. If the word in the verse is translated evil or disaster it still doesn't express the meaning(s) without that context, so what is missing is the context not a perfected translation (which would be impossible). The passage appears to just be recalling the blessings and curses on the Jews and then saying that Cyrus is going to participate in the blessings. The first part of the chapter partly describes how Cyrus conquers the Babylonians. There is some poetry about hidden riches, because the Torah is wealth and Babylon has hidden wealth. It seems like a medley of multiple meanings winding through a single passage and some kind of adoption of Cyrus. There is a lot going on in it, so no doubt the translators are overwhelmed.

 

[allfoak]

The Bible has been corrupted since before Jeremiahs day. Jeremiah 8:8

The words in the bible are meant to be a catylist to finding the truth. This means that the words hold a great deal more meaning than the translators could ever have imagined. While they have managed to gut the book to the point that the original message is no longer clear, the message can never be destroyed as long as the book exists.
The words of the book are written in the language of the soul. Something the translators could never understand or destroy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nope, because I know next to nothing about them.


.

Good point. Maybe have some interest in some?

 

[Timothy Bryce]

My conclusion: So much for the claimed veracity of the Bible and those who translated it. At least half the translators couldn't bring themselves to tell the truth because they felt it would not only hurt their image of God, but hurt Christianity as well.
If you feel I've got it wrong here I welcome a better explanation for the translator's pussyfooting. AND why one shouldn't be suspicious of everything in the Bible.
.

Great post and thank you for being so thorough.

One of my biggest grievances with Christianity is how obviously adulterated and manipulated the bible is while people insist on clinging to it as the "word of god".

It's perverse at best; dangerous at worst.

 

[omega2xx]

The following is intended to bring out the fact that some of the Bible's translators deliberately pussyfooted around its more difficult/embarrassing passages, very likely to more easily sell Christianity, but in turn torpedoed its veracity. Hardly an admirable enterprise, especially by those who expect us to believe they're dedicated to God's "truth."

My example is Isaiah 45:7 (a verse I've used before for other reasons) wherein God says:

(KJV)
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."​

In examining 30 different translations I found the Hebrew רַ רַע (ra`) is given nine different meanings. By far the most common and probably most demeaning to God is "evil," as noted above in the King James Version. Evil exists because God deliberately creates it---please note that the word is "creates" and not "created." God continues to create evil---anyone care to make a guess as to why?.

"Evil" occurs in 14 (47%) of the 30 translations I looked at. Reasoning that no translator would select a word that is more unfavorable to god than not, and that "evil" is the predominant translation, I think it's fair to conclude it's most likely the correct translation: God said he creates evil. So what about those translations that don't translate רַ רַע (ra`) as "evil"?

That's where I believe the pussyfooting comes in. In the other 16 translations of Isaiah 45:7 the translators chose not to tell the reader that god creates evil---God forbid!---but that he does something far less dastardly. Five of them say he creates "disasters," and three of them say he creates "calamity." Two of them say he creates "troubles," whereas another two say he creates "woe." The other four individually say he creates, "bad times," "discord," "doom," and "hard times." This is quite a spread, going from a god who creates evil to a god who only creates hard times. The point here isn't that various translators wrote conflicting things about god, but the implication behind the why of it. The implication, as I see it, being: If the translators have no compunctions about how they present the nature of God in order to save his image, something I would think to be sacrosanct, how can they be trusted not to have changed other equally important "facts" in the Bible? An attempt, more likely than not, to preserve their theology, and make Christianity an easier sell. If, in fact, "evil" is what God actually said then 53% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers. AND, if "hard times" is, for instance, what God actually said, then 94% of the Bible versions are lying to and misleading its readers.

My conclusion: So much for the claimed veracity of the Bible and those who translated it. At least half the translators couldn't bring themselves to tell the truth because they felt it would not only hurt their image of God, but hurt Christianity as well.
If you feel I've got it wrong here I welcome a better explanation for the translator's pussyfooting. AND why one shouldn't be suspicious of everything in the Bible.

My conjclusion is you need a better translaltion

you should have taken you own advice. The KJ is not the best translation. In the NKJ evil in that verse has been changed to, guess what--CALAMITY.

Your second mistake was not looking at the context. In that verse God is making comparisons of opposite things: light vs darkness, and the opposite of peace is not "evil" it is, wait for it, it is calamity.

Your third mistake is that in you list of 30 translations, some are not translations. Some are a paraphrase. Some were done by men not qualified in Hebrew to make an accurate translation. If you take the top 10 good translation, you will find, guess what, wait for it---CALAMITY.

Your fourth mistake, the one you continually make, is trying to discredit something you are totally ignorant of.

In conclusion, as long as you are totally ignorant of the Bible, you will continually make a fool of your self.
What you are doing is not a calamity, it is, guess what, wait for it---evil. IMO of course.

 

[omega2xx]

The Bible has been corrupted since before Jeremiahs day. Jeremiah 8:8

The words in the bible are meant to be a catylist to finding the truth. This means that the words hold a great deal more meaning than the translators could ever have imagined. While they have managed to gut the book to the point that the original message is no longer clear, the message can never be destroyed as long as the book exists.
The words of the book are written in the language of the soul. Something the translators could never understand or destroy.

The good scholars can translate Hebrew into English accurately. The have the soul for it and you can't show even one example of where the Bible has been corrupted.

 

[omega2xx]

Nope, because I know next to nothing about them.


.

You know less than nothing about the Bible.

 

[allfoak]

The good scholars can translate Hebrew into English accurately. The have the soul for it and you can't show even one example of where the Bible has been corrupted.

Jeremiah 8:8
The bible itself says it has been corrupted.

 

[omega2xx]

Great post and thank you for being so thorough.

One of my biggest grievances with Christianity is how obviously adulterated and manipulated the bible is while people insist on clinging to it as the "word of god".

It's perverse at best; dangerous at worst.

What is even more dangerous is attacking the Bible from ignorance. That is perverse at best and dangerous at worse.

It is amusing to me that some are willing to take the word of someone completely ignorant of the subject they want to discuss. How sad.

 

[allfoak]

You know less than nothing about the Bible.

I think we found one of those nasty Christians.

 

[omega2xx]

Jeremiah 8:8
The bible itself says it has been corrupted.

Read the next verse....Behold. they have rejected the word of the Lord, and what kind of wisdom do they have?

Verse 8 is describing false prophets and the scribes that pen their words.

We are warned throughout the Bible to be aware of false prophets,false scribes and false teachers.

 

[omega2xx]

I think we found one of those nasty Christians.

The truth is never nasty. It only seems that way to those who are ignorant of the subject.

But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. I Cor 2:14

Isn't it ironic and very amusing, when someone trying to discredit the Bible actually reinforces the accuracy of it?

 

[allfoak]

The truth is never nasty. It only seems that way to those who are ignorant of the subject.

But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. I Cor 2:14

Isn't it ironic and very amusing, when someone trying to discredit the Bible actually reinforces the accuracy of it?

Our discusion is over. I have encountered delusional people like yourself many times, it always turns out to be a waste of time. You win.

 

[12jtartar]

Skim,
Perhaps it has never occurred to you that all these translations are correct. The real truth is; the word here means that Go brings on calamity to people who do not obey Him. Now that is not too hard for you to understand,is it???
If you are really trying your best to find something incorrect in the Bible, just keep looking, as people who willfully blind do, because Satan has blinded their eyes, 2Corinthians 4:3,4.
Remember, no wicked can understand God's word, Daniel 12:10. This is because their hearts are bad, as Jesus explained at Matthew 13:13-15. And other people are warned about twisting God's words, and it makes no difference whether by ignorance or unsteady, they both will be destroyed, 2Peter 3:15,16. Only a few should try to teach, because a heavy responsibility rests on all who do, James 3:1.