The Bible declares that Jesus is God

[Fool]

You do realize that you are making yourself out to be God? The highest and most repulsive form of idolatry?

i'm making everything out to be God. idolatry is taking something and idolizing/demonizing it compared to something else....

Love, like God, makes all things equal, makes all things ONE.


2 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are you not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But you have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which you are called?

 

[Fool]

Agreed. The idea that we are all Gods is idolatry and polytheism mixed in one. Her previous citation of Psalm 82:6, which talks of "Gods" is unpersuasive since this verse speaks of the corrupt judges of Israel, not a new set of created deities. The bible is extremely clear there is only one God and there is no need to insert an inherent contradiction here.

Quite simply, if the scripture doesn't mean what we want it to mean it's time to move on and figure out what it does mean. It is insufficient to quote a verse here and there. Our theology should be able to reconcile a stated interpretation with the balance of scripture, and I see no balance here.



This is illogical. If Jesus created everything then the Holy Spirit could not have created Jesus, and if you're claiming the Holy Spirit is Jesus then it means Jesus created himself. You can not possibly be the creator of everything if you yourself are created.

the underlying issue is that some people define God. the define/delimit God as separate from creation. the bible doesn't teach that. it is also the ego of the definer trying to delimit God to there vs here, or here vs there. mankind may have limits but God isn't limited, or finite. men are finite, like the grass they all wither and die and are no more.

God doesn't play favorites. He makes the rain and sunshine fall on the righteous and the evil.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


God's Spirit is inherent and immanent. What a great and terrible day it is. God is present NOW.

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.



Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Matthew 5:14
You are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Revelation 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

 

[Rick B]

i'm making everything out to be God. idolatry is taking something and idolizing/demonizing it compared to something else....

Love, like God, makes all things equal, makes all things ONE.


2 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are you not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But you have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which you are called?

This is classic Pantheism ("making everything out to be God"). For you, as a Pantheist, to use the Bible to support your position is absurd. As is demonstrated by the fact that none of those references do anything to support your assertion. The Bible clearly condemns any belief system that denies the exclusivity of the One divine being that is God which is Monotheism.

 

[Fool]

This is classic Pantheism ("making everything out to be God"). For you, as a Pantheist, to use the Bible to support your position is absurd. As is demonstrated by the fact that none of those references do anything to support your assertion. The Bible clearly condemns any belief system that denies the exclusivity of the One divine being that is God which is Monotheism.

monotheism would then have to include all things visible and invisible. otherwise you have a duality again. you would have God and then God separate from her creation. the bible doesn't teach anything apart from God.


mono means one.....


monotheism and pantheism aren't adverse to one another. they basically imply that God is everything; including the manifested universe. i believe there are lesser gods but there is only ONE All; otherwise it wouldn't be the ALL


not only am i pantheist. I'm also a panenthiest.

1 Kings 8:27
27 “But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!

 

[Muffled]

The real truth of this thread seems to be this.This thread was started with th announcement that the bible declares Jesus is God.

It seems to be taken to the level of well if the bible declares it it must be true.

Then you guys who started just seems to want to declare yourselves the winner the whole time without a lot of debate just declare yourselves winner upfront .

There maybe passages that do say Jesus is God I know of one or 2. But the problem here is this.

It matters little to nothing what the bible says at all if the bible has not been proven true.



There's more proof that the bible is false not translated right. Without that belief in the bible your thread is nothing.

I believe you would not accept a proof that the Bible is true.

I believe that blanket statement has to be false because it suggests that the whole Bible has been mistranslated. I believe there may be inconsequential errors at times and in some rare cases consequential errors but other translations get things right so the Bible itself has been well translated by its multiple translations. However even if somethinng is left in error it would not be the whole Bible.

 

[Muffled]

monotheism would then have to include all things visible and invisible. otherwise you have a duality again. you would have God and then God separate from her creation. the bible doesn't teach anything apart from God.


mono means one.....


monotheism and pantheism aren't adverse to one another. they basically imply that God is everything; including the manifested universe. i believe there are lesser gods but there is only ONE All; otherwise it wouldn't be the ALL


not only am i pantheist. I'm also a panenthiest.

1 Kings 8:27
27 “But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!

I believe that is false. Monotheism says there is one God. The Bible says He is invisible so He can't be a visible thing.

I believe that is exactly what the truth is: a duality. God is the creator and the creation is not God.

I believe that is the reality although separation suggests distance but I believe that is not the case.

I believe that is a patently false assumption that must come from an a priori view of the Bible rather than seeing what it really says.

 

[Fool]

I believe that is false. Monotheism says there is one God. The Bible says He is invisible so He can't be a visible thing.

yes there is only one Absolute; otherwise there is the invisible god and it's manifested; which creates a duality. a house divided against itself will fall.

Colossian 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

I believe that is exactly what the truth is: a duality. God is the creator and the creation is not God.

Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

there is no other, no other God, no other anything because everything is god, for in him all things were created(colossian 1:16) without/outside of him nothing was created(john 1:3).

I believe that is the reality although separation suggests distance but I believe that is not the case.

God can't be distant and omnipresent. Genesis says god is without form, formless, uncreated, doesn't mean that god can't take a form but that form is illusory and temporary. God's action isn't. most folks confuse the form as the function but it's the Spirit, or function, that creates the form taken.

I believe that is a patently false assumption that must come from an a priori view of the Bible rather than seeing what it really says.

belief isn't an issue. testing belief in reality leads to fruit in keeping with repentance. faith without fruit is d-e-a-d

 

[Riders]

I believe you would not accept a proof that the Bible is true.

I believe that blanket statement has to be false because it suggests that the whole Bible has been mistranslated. I believe there may be inconsequential errors at times and in some rare cases consequential errors but other translations get things right so the Bible itself has been well translated by its multiple translations. However even if somethinng is left in error it would not be the whole Bible.

Well you agree with my point then. In order to argue the Bible proves Jesus is God you have to believe on the bible.So this thread is for those who belong to spiritual religious ideas from a religion that uses the bible and believes in it.

For example Jewish and Muslim folks believe in the bible. I'm not a Christian so this is not a good thread for me to argue.

 

[Oeste]

Well you agree with my point then. In order to argue the Bible proves Jesus is God you have to believe on the bible.

We don't always agree Rider, but it's nice when we can and I agree with you on this.

 

[SSBGoku]

The Gospels and Acts were composed AFTER Paul's letters.

Encyclopedia Britannica: "The books are not arranged chronologically in the New Testament. The Epistles of Paul, for example, which address the immediate problems of local churches shortly after Christ's death, are considered to be the earliest texts."

Mark and Matthew were INTENDED as symbolic fiction, being written in a symbolic chiastic structure.

Only with Luke-Acts did Christians start to view the four Gospels literally.

The sayings of Jesus in the Gospels are things Paul originally said. See Nikolaus Walter's ‘Paul and the Early Christian Jesus-Tradition’.

The events in Mark and Matthew are based on the Old Testament, directly borrowing its language:

The Donkey(s) - Jesus riding on a donkey is from Zechariah 9.

Mark has Jesus sit on a young donkey that he had his disciples fetch for him (Mark 11.1-10).

Matthew changes the story so the disciples instead fetch TWO donkeys, not only the young donkey of Mark but also his mother. Jesus rides into Jerusalem on both donkeys at the same time (Matthew 21.1-9). Matthew wanted the story to better match the literal reading of Zechariah 9.9. Matthew even actually quotes part of Zech. 9.9.

The Sermon on the Mount - The Sermon of the Mount relies extensively on the Greek text of Deuteronomy and Leviticus especially, and in key places on other texts. For example, the section on turning the other cheek and other aspects of legal pacifism (Mt. 5.38-42) has been redacted from the Greek text of Isaiah 50.6-9.

The clearing of the temple - The cleansing of the temple as a fictional scene has its primary inspiration from an ancient faulty translation of Zech. 14.21 which changed 'Canaanites' to 'traders'.

When Jesus clears the temple he quotes Jer. 7.11 (in Mk 11.17). Jeremiah and Jesus both enter the temple (Jer. 7.1-2; Mk 11.15), make the same accusation against the corruption of the temple cult (Jeremiah quoting a revelation from the Lord, Jesus quoting Jeremiah), and predict the destruction of the temple (Jer. 7.12-14; Mk 14.57-58; 15.29).

The Resurrection - Jesus was known as the ‘firstfruits’ of the resurrection that would occur to all believers (1 Cor. 15.20-23). The Torah commands that the Day of Firstfruits take place the day after the first Sabbath following the Passover (Lev. 23.5, 10-11). In other words, on a Sunday. Mark has Jesus rise on Sunday, the firstftuits of the resurrected, symbolically on the very Day of Firstfruits itself.

Barabbas - This is the Yom Kippur ceremony of Leviticus 16 and Mishnah tractate Yoma: two ‘identical’ goats were chosen each year, and one was released into the wild containing the sins of Israel (which was eventually killed by being pushed over a cliff), while the other’s blood was shed to atone for those sins. Barabbas means ‘Son of the Father’ in Aramaic, and we know Jesus was deliberately styled the ‘Son of the Father’ himself. So we have two sons of the father; one is released into the wild mob containing the sins of Israel (murder and rebellion), while the other is sacrificed so his blood may atone for the sins of Israel—the one who is released bears those sins literally; the other, figuratively. Adding weight to this conclusion is manuscript evidence that the story originally had the name ‘Jesus Barabbas’. Thus we really had two men called ‘Jesus Son of the Father’.

 

[Oeste]

I think this drives home the recurring theme from atheists, skeptics and anti-Trinitarians posting on this thread that If we simply disbelieve the bible, treat large swaths as fiction, add, detract, or ignore a few verses here or there, then Jesus is no longer God.

For those inclined to accept the bible as authoritative it becomes pretty clear Jesus is God.

 

[Rick B]

I think this drives home the recurring theme from atheists, skeptics and anti-Trinitarians posting on this thread that If we simply disbelieve the bible, treat large swaths as fiction, add, detract, or ignore a few verses here or there, then Jesus is no longer God.

For those inclined to accept the bible as authoritative it becomes pretty clear Jesus is God.

So very true.

"To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, it is because they have no light in them." Isaiah 8:20

"He that is of God hears God's word: you therefore hear them not, because you are not of God." John 8:47

"The wise men are put to shame, they are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the Word of the LORD, and what kind of wisdom do they have?" Jeremiah 8:9

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the Word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." John 12:48

"For the Word of the God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12

"For the Word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will thwart the cleverness of the intelligent.'" 1 Corinthians 1:18-19

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools," Romans 1:18-22

"Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him?" Matthew 2:2

"And when again He brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.'" Hebrews 1:6

"For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" Philippians 2:9-11

"looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." Titus 2:13

 

[OtherSheep]

Well, a father and a son are still two distinct beings. So there would exist two Gods then according two this analogy, but the one comes from the other. Similar to Zeus being the son of Kronos. Polytheism works this way. So Zeus and Kronos would have the same divine essence (like DNA) but Have different personalities therefore they are individual gods.

Kronos is Saturn, and connected to Seth-Typhon. Tiamat is the 7-headed red dragon of Babylon, and mother of Enki who is described and depicted exactly as is Seth-Typhon, right down to the shape of his tail. Tiamat is chaos. Revelation 12 tells us that the 7-headed red dragon [Tiamat/chaos] is Satan, making Seth-Typhon a son of Satan.

Zeus is a son of God, and is the father of gods and men. Rhea is the queen of heaven whose son Zeus was to be swallowed up like all the rest. Zeus is God of the Bright Sky. Kronos is loosed again into the realm of man, for a time. If we read Revelation and Theogony we have to wonder how many times this same rebellion has been put down by a son of time who defeated time itself to become the father of gods and mankind.

Polytheism isn't what most people think it is. All are one, say the poets of Greece and the Britons. Descriptive terms, untranslated, are taken as personal names. Kronos is time. When Jesus came to earth dressed in human flesh, He became a child of time and subject to death. The same is true of all of the sons of Kronos/time. Time swallows us all.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Kronos is Saturn, and connected to Seth-Typhon. Tiamat is the 7-headed red dragon of Babylon, and mother of Enki who is described and depicted exactly as is Seth-Typhon, right down to the shape of his tail. Tiamat is chaos. Revelation 12 tells us that the 7-headed red dragon [Tiamat/chaos] is Satan, making Seth-Typhon a son of Satan.

Zeus is a son of God, and is the father of gods and men. Rhea is the queen of heaven whose son Zeus was to be swallowed up like all the rest. Zeus is God of the Bright Sky. Kronos is loosed again into the realm of man, for a time. If we read Revelation and Theogony we have to wonder how many times this same rebellion has been put down by a son of time who defeated time itself to become the father of gods and mankind.

Polytheism isn't what most people think it is. All are one, say the poets of Greece and the Britons. Descriptive terms, untranslated, are taken as personal names. Kronos is time. When Jesus came to earth dressed in human flesh, He became a child of time and subject to death. The same is true of all of the sons of Kronos/time. Time swallows us all.

The phrase 'son of' can mean of the same type

The 'son of' a hammer is a hammer

 

[Muffled]

Well you agree with my point then. In order to argue the Bible proves Jesus is God you have to believe on the bible.So this thread is for those who belong to spiritual religious ideas from a religion that uses the bible and believes in it.

For example Jewish and Muslim folks believe in the bible. I'm not a Christian so this is not a good thread for me to argue.

I believe that is correct. I would not read a math textbook to see if Jesus were God, and I wouldn't read the Bible to try to find out if one an done makes two. So for a person who wishes there were not a God the Bible is not the desired book to read.

 

[Muffled]

Kronos is Saturn, and connected to Seth-Typhon. Tiamat is the 7-headed red dragon of Babylon, and mother of Enki who is described and depicted exactly as is Seth-Typhon, right down to the shape of his tail. Tiamat is chaos. Revelation 12 tells us that the 7-headed red dragon [Tiamat/chaos] is Satan, making Seth-Typhon a son of Satan.

Zeus is a son of God, and is the father of gods and men. Rhea is the queen of heaven whose son Zeus was to be swallowed up like all the rest. Zeus is God of the Bright Sky. Kronos is loosed again into the realm of man, for a time. If we read Revelation and Theogony we have to wonder how many times this same rebellion has been put down by a son of time who defeated time itself to become the father of gods and mankind.

Polytheism isn't what most people think it is. All are one, say the poets of Greece and the Britons. Descriptive terms, untranslated, are taken as personal names. Kronos is time. When Jesus came to earth dressed in human flesh, He became a child of time and subject to death. The same is true of all of the sons of Kronos/time. Time swallows us all.

I believe the Greek gods do appear to be anthropomorthic. The question is whether the gods are an invention of the attribute or simply that they specialize in certain ways. So if Kronos is an invention to represent time then he is no god at all but if he is a god then he could be one who specializes in time but would not be representative of it.

 

[Muffled]

yes there is only one Absolute; otherwise there is the invisible god and it's manifested; which creates a duality. a house divided against itself will fall.

Colossian 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.



Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

there is no other, no other God, no other anything because everything is god, for in him all things were created(colossian 1:16) without/outside of him nothing was created(john 1:3).



God can't be distant and omnipresent. Genesis says god is without form, formless, uncreated, doesn't mean that god can't take a form but that form is illusory and temporary. God's action isn't. most folks confuse the form as the function but it's the Spirit, or function, that creates the form taken.


belief isn't an issue. testing belief in reality leads to fruit in keeping with repentance. faith without fruit is d-e-a-d

I believe if God is everything then nothing needs to be created. The fact that there is a creation indicates that it is something God is not.

I believe that depends on whether God is substantive or not. If god is substantive then we believe two substances can't inhabit the same space at the same time. However if God is not substantive He can inhabit the same space at the same time. Another possibility is that God dwells between the substances everywhere but is separate from them.

 

[Fool]

I believe if God is everything then nothing needs to be created. The fact that there is a creation indicates that it is something God is not.

I believe that depends on whether God is substantive or not. If god is substantive then we believe two substances can't inhabit the same space at the same time. However if God is not substantive He can inhabit the same space at the same time. Another possibility is that God dwells between the substances everywhere but is separate from them.

then you're nullifying the word

john 1:3

isaiah 45:5

 

[Riders]

I believe that is correct. I would not read a math textbook to see if Jesus were God, and I wouldn't read the Bible to try to find out if one an done makes two. So for a person who wishes there were not a God the Bible is not the desired book to read.

But there is still no proof that the bible is right.

 

[Riders]

Do you have any proof outside of the bible that Jesus is God, or any proof that the bible is correct?