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Featured The Bible declares that Jesus is God

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Rick B, May 27, 2017.

  1. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    If it is what you are taught--Then Jesus and Paul would be the liars--but we know its not them
    A prayer to the Father)John 17:1-6, 26-- verse 3--This means eternal life, their taking in knowledge( knowing) of you( Father)-THE ONLY TRUE GOD--and of the one whom you sent( John 5:30) forth-Jesus Christ--verse 6= YHVH(Jehovah), 26 = YHVH(Jehovah)
    1 Corinthians 8:6--There is ONE God to all-The Father.-- I do not a see a trinity coming out of the mouth of Jesus or Paul. Peter teaches Jesus has a God-his Father-1Peter 1:3--as does John at Rev 1:6


    3 real teachers and Jesus contradicting the trinity into oblivion. As do the Facts of history.
     
  2. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    You actually believe it's the literal people that are in the building called the United Nations, I've heard it all now. Is Russia part of the United Nations?




    Wouldn't that be, after His likeness?

    Your 'slave' likes to keep the rank and file in the Old Testament, so they don't understand the new. You're quoting the old covenant, Jesus is the NEW covenant, which the rank and file witness have no part of
    .

    Not just "above other names", but, "EVERY NAME THAT IS NAMED, not only in this age, but the age to come also"!

    I do listen to Jesus, YOU listen to the 7 self appointed, imperfect, fallible men who claim to be the only channel to God.
     
  3. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Then you should show the Bible to your teachers, because they said it, not me.

    *** ws chap. 1 pp. 10-11 par. 16 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide ***
    Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. This spiritual nation is like a little flock of Jehovah’s sheeplike ones.—Romans 9:6; Revelation 7:4.

    I will 'almost' bet, you've never read this from your literature,

    *** w07 4/1 pp. 24-25 par. 14 Loyal to Christ and His Faithful Slave ***
    14 The humble submission of the other sheep to the anointed members of spiritual Israel was foretold in the prophecy of Isaiah: “This is what Jehovah has said: ‘The unpaid laborers of Egypt and the merchants of Ethiopia and the Sabeans, tall men, will themselves come over even to you, and yours they will become. Behind you they will walk; in fetters they will come over, and to you they will bow down. To you they will pray, saying, “Indeed God is in union with you, and there is no one else; there is no other God.”’” (Isaiah 45:14) Symbolically, the other sheep today walk behind the anointed slave class and its Governing Body, following their leadership. As “unpaid laborers,” the other sheep willingly expend their physical strength and their resources in support of the worldwide preaching work that Christ assigned to his anointed followers on earth.—Acts 1:8; Revelation 12:17.


    *** w08 1/15 p. 26 par. 6 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life ***
    6 The willing support given to anointed Christians by their companions of the other sheep was foretold by the prophet Isaiah. He wrote: “This is what Jehovah has said: ‘The unpaid laborers of Egypt and the merchants of Ethiopia and the Sabeans, tall men, will themselves come over even to you, and yours they will become. Behind you they will walk.’” (Isa. 45:14) In a symbolic way, Christians with an earthly hope today walk behind the anointed slave class and its Governing Body, following their leadership. As “unpaid laborers,” the other sheep willingly and wholeheartedly expend their strength and their resources in support of the worldwide preaching work that Christ assigned to his anointed followers on earth.—Acts 1:8; Rev. 12:17.

    Jesus assigned the preaching work to the anointed, who get to go to heaven, who are to be kings and priests, who are to be judges over you, who get all the glory. And they recruit, as "unpaid laborers" to do the preaching work for them, the "meek", "other sheep" who don't get nothing but an "earthly hope" for all their labors.
     
  4. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    When someone embraces a heretical teaching such as Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism, as @kjw47, which they believe give them the authority to accomplish their own salvation (a work available exclusively to God alone), trying to demonstrate from Scripture their soul-condemning heresy is nearly impossible - as witnessed by @kjw47's implacable resistance. Except for a very few the effort to pry from their fingers that which gives them a power that is God's prerogative alone is too heart-wrenching to their self-love for them to abandon.
     
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  5. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    All that babble, and you didn't even bother to comment on the verse I quoted, I wonder why? Care to do so now, or can you?

    Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
     
  6. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    Its all about to happen. We will all see who is correct.
     
  7. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    No mortal has a clue as to what being in heaven will be like.( no mate in heaven) I would rather stay on earth and have a family. Love will rule every mortals heart then.
     
  8. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    Mumbo jumbo
     
  9. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    Same meaning--- stop in the name of the law--- No actual name is mentioned. a term is used.
     
  10. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    My word, are you serious?

    Jesus said,

    Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    Seems Peter understood what He meant.

    Acts 2:38 (ESV Strong's) 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 10:48 (ESV Strong's) 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

    Acts 19:5 (ESV Strong's) 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Why can't you understand?

    What about Paul, was he wrong, did he know what he was saying?

    Acts 21:13 (ESV Strong's) 13 Then Paul answered, “What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be imprisoned but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.”

    Why not die for the name of Jehovah, if it was so special?
     
  11. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    What on earth does that have to do with what I posted? NOTHING!!

    If Jesus IS NOT YOUR MEDIATOR how do YOU get to God? YOU can't, because no one comes to the Father but by Jesus!!
     
  12. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    Romans 9:5

    Byzantine / Majority Text
    ων οι πατερες και εξ ων ο χριστος το κατα σαρκα ο ων (5723) επι παντων θεος ευλογητοςεις τους αιωνας αμην

    Tichendorf 8th Edition
    ὧν οἱ πατέρες, καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ Χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα• ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰςτοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.

    Textus Receptus
    ων οι πατερες και εξ ων ο χριστος το κατα σαρκα ο ων (5723) επι παντων θεος ευλογητοςεις τους αιωνας αμην

    Neste-Aland 26
    ωJν (5752) οἱ πατέρες, καὶ εχ ωJν (5752) ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα· ὁ ωJν (5752) ἐπὶ πάντωνθεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.

    Westcott / Hort, UBS4
    ων οι πατερες και εξ ων ο χριστος το κατα σαρκα ο ων (5723) επι παντων θεος ευλογητοςεις τους αιωνας αμην

    whose are the patriarchs and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh who is over all God blessed forever Amen

    NWT Interlinear
    ὧν(of whom) οἱ(the), πατέρες,(fathers) καὶ(and) ἐξ(out of) ὧν(whom) ὁ(the) χριστὸς(Christ) τὸ(the (thing) κατὰ(according to), σάρκα,(flesh) ὁ(the (one) ὢν(being) ἐπὶ(upon),(all (things) θεὸς(God) εὐλογητὸς(blessed (one) εἰς(into) τοὺς(the) αἰῶνας·(ages ἀμήν)

    Of whom (εξ ων). Fourth relative clause and here with εξ and the ablative. Christ (ο χριστος). The Messiah. As concerning the flesh (τὸ κατὰ σάρκα). Accusative of general reference, "as to the according to the flesh." Paul limits the descent of Jesus from the Jews to his human side as he did in Acts 1:3 . Who is over all, God blessed for ever (ὁ oν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς ). A clear statement of the deity of Christ following the remark about his humanity. This is the natural and the obvious way of punctuating the sentence. To make a full stop after σαρκα (or colon) and start a new sentence for the doxology is very abrupt and awkward. See Acts 20:28 ; Titus 2:13 for Paul's use of θεὸς applied to Jesus Christ. A. T. Robertson Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament Bible Commentary

    Bruce Metzger says: "The interpretation that refers the passage to Christ suits the structure of the sentence, whereas the interpretation that takes the words as an asyndetic doxology to God the Father is awkward and unnatural." (p. 521) Bruce Metzger also refers to Nigel Turner as declaring it to be grammatically unnatural that a participle agreeing with CHRISTOS "should first be divorced from it and then given the force of a wish, receiving a different person as its subject." (Metzger gives Grammatical Insights into the New Testament Edinburgh, 1965), page 15 by Nigel Turner.

    “Second, both in the Holy Bible and also in Semitic inscriptions doxologies are differently constructed from what we find in Romans 9:5. The verb or verbal adjective (i.e. the word “blessed”) always precedes the name of God and never follows it, as with the example of Romans 9:5. In other words, in cases of doxologies Paul (as well as the other Bible writers) places the word for blessed (eulogetos) in the first position, before the word God, not after it, just as we find in the following verses:

    “Blessed be the God and Father (eulogetos ho theos kai pater) of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,” 2 Corinthians 1:3

    “Blessed be the God and Father (eulogetos ho theos kai pater) of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,” Ephesians 1:3

    This seems to further support the view that Romans 9:5 does not contain an independent doxology to God the Father, but rather to Christ, being a descriptive doxology, i.e. a declaration of who Christ is, namely “God, who is blessed forever.”

    Moreover, every time Paul gives a doxology (and this is true for the others as well), it’s tied to the immediate context (cf. Romans 1:25, 11:36; Galatians 1:4-5; 2 Corinthians 11:31; 2 Timothy 4:18). In fact, one does not find Paul diverting from the topic by introducing an independent praise to God (unless we assume that Romans 9:5 is the exception). Yet the doxology in Romans 9:5 is found in the middle of a lament for Paul’s nation. In the context Paul has been speaking of his heart’s desire to see his countrymen come to saving faith in Christ, yet they refused to do so despite all that God has blessed them with. In light of this, an outburst of praise to God makes little sense.

    However, since Paul has been discussing the privileges that God has granted to Israel it makes more sense that the inspired Apostle would speak of the eternal praise that Jesus deserves and receives when he happens to be the greatest blessing that Israel has ever been given. After all, what greater honor and blessing could be shown to Israel than to have the eternal Son of God who is praised forever become an Israelite? Thus, the context fits a doxology to Christ much better.

    Fourth, there are two other places where Paul uses the expression “blessed forever.” In these particular passages the subject of the doxologies precedes, not follows, the ascription of praise:
    “For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever (hos estin eulogetos eis tous aionas). Amen.” Romans 1:25
    Clearly, the One who is blessed forever is the Creator God. And:

    “The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is blessed forever (ho on eulogetos eis tous aionas), knows that I am not lying.” 2 Corinthians 11:31

    Again, contextually the One who is blessed forever must be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Therefore, consistency would suggest that we understand that Jesus Christ is being referred to as “God, who is blessed forever,” i.e. the eternally blessed God, since we find the same word order in Romans 9:5 that we do in the above examples.
     
  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that is false. My translation says that they wet back to the original texts. NAS.

    I believe the original NWT was an abomination. There appears to be something more recent where JW's have corrected some of their errors.

    I believe that is absurd. Roman Catholicism created orthodoxy. Everyone interpreting for themselves created confusion.

    I don't believe it much matters. If the house is built on the Rock it will stand. Mt 7:25 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon the rock
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe there are no proofs that show that Jesus is not God. There are many supposed reasoning to that end but they are all flawed.

    On the other hand I believe the proofs that Jesus is God are solid.
     
  15. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    We all pray to the Father--through Jesus' name.
     
  16. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    There were no original writings left when the protestants translated--Catholicism works remained. So you must have Catholicism translating or a liar did it.
    Catholicism is far removed from God and Jesus--they are not the rock. Neither is there translating any good. Every trinity translation on earth contradicts the teachings of Jesus with the errors contained.
    The only ones on earth who correct their errors--these will prove correct in the end--the rest will fall.
     
  17. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus says the opposite---John 20:17, Rev 3:12--God does NOT have a God--Jesus does. He is the firstborn of all creation( created first and last direct) all other things created through him--It is he speaking at Prov 8 0 doubt. Telling all how painstaking it was for God to create him direct.

    All who choose to believe Catholicism translating over Jesus truths will lose.
     
  18. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't it Michael, in heaven with God in the beginning? Didn't God create Michael, who then came to earth to be Jesus? Then, wasn't it Michael in Prov. 8 that was speaking and not Jesus?
     
  19. kjw47

    kjw47 Well-Known Member

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    It was Michael. He is the being speaking there, He came to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal. There is no doubt the being speaking there is the being who came to earth, he referenced-HE a few x in Prov 8, He is God the one doing the creating but through that being( Gods master worker)- Jesus--He wasn't named Jesus in the ot years. It is Michael. And since the NT teaches creation was done through Jesus--Jesus is Michael. Michael stands up for the sons of Daniel in the last days. Daniel 12:1) He came just for the sons of Daniel( Israel(true followers though)-- Few proved to be real sons of Daniel. The teachers even rejected Jesus and the apostles. Jehovah and he were hoping they would listen, but their false reasonings( Jer 17:9) got the best of them--God rejected them until they do verse 39 here at Matthew 23:37-39-- they outright refuse. over 1950 years so far.
     
    #999 kjw47, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  20. garden47

    garden47 Member

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    The Bible declares that Jesus is God

    References to Christ as the Son of God has resulted in the false impression that He was created by God at a later date, and therefore a separate, subordinate deity.

    This was the central issue that necessitated the Ecumenical First Council of Nicaea of 325, whereby "Arianism" was deemed a heresy and the Trinity reaffirmed!
     
    #1000 garden47, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
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