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Featured The Bible declares that Jesus is God

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Rick B, May 27, 2017.

  1. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    Seriously? No book, no author of the Bible agrees with your assertion. Especially Isaiah.

    "You alone, Lord, are God." Isaiah 37:20
    "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
    "'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
    "Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8
    "I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
    "Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
    "I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
    "Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
    "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
     
  2. Blessed1203

    Blessed1203 Member

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    Revelation 1:8 KJVS
    I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
     
  3. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Wonder why I've never noticed this thread before -- well, no matter.

    So, "the Bible declares that Jesus is God," eh? I can't help but remember that the Bible also declares that bats are birds, and the rabbits chew the cud. Oh, and that brass snake statues cure snake-bite.

    So, why would anybody really care what "the Bible declares?"
     
  4. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    Deutro_Isaiah ( 40-55) appears to be the foundation for Christianity ( and Judaism) and these books specifically deal with King Cyrus .

    Isaiah 44:28 Cyrus the Shepherd
    Isaiah 45:1 Cyrus the Messiah

    Revelation 18:2
    And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen

    But who was the one whom toppled Babylon? 'King Cyrus' ( the original Christ).

    Ezra 6:14
    according to the commandment of the God of Israel
    according to the commandment of Cyrus

    This is why 'Magi' ( Persian priests) appear in the story of Matthew to announce the birth of Christ, for its based on the birth of Cyrus.. same story arch too.. A King tried to kill Baby Cyrus, the child was hidden away and adopted.
     
  5. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    It's funny that you would take refuge in the late eighteenth century theory called Deutero-Isaiah. Most respected Bible scholars reject this theory on several grounds. The second century Dead Sea Scrolls contain all 66 chapters of Isaiah in a single scroll. Jewish tradition ascribes Isaiah as the author of the whole book.
    Most convincing is that Jesus quoted from both sections of Isaiah ascribing human authorship to Isaiah alone.
     
  6. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    I believe Isaiah 40-55 to be the original, 1-39 appears to be a version of 2 Kings

    2 Kings 20:12
    At that time Berodachbaladan, the son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present unto Hezekiah: for he had heard that Hezekiah had been sick

    Isaiah 39:1
    At that time Merodachbaladan, the son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present to Hezekiah: for he had heard that he had been sick, and was recovered

    2 Kings 20:19
    Then said Hezekiah unto Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken. And he said, Is it not good, if peace and truth be in my days?

    Isaiah 39:8
    Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah, Good is the word of the LORD which thou hast spoken. He said moreover, For there shall be peace and truth in my days.

    Which was written first?
     
  7. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    Isaiah was written 700-680 BC
    2 Kings 560-540 so Isaiah was written first. So Jeremiah, or whoever was the author, likely received information from Isaiah's writings. Or God may have inspired both authors with the same truth.
     
  8. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    There is no evidence that Isaiah was written around 700-680 BC, All the Books of the Old Testament are 'Post-Exile' , written during and after the Persian period, anachronism is the proof.
     
  9. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    So David didn't write any of the Psalms and Solomon none of the Proverbs.
     
  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Let me just mention that it was customary in early Jewish religious literature for a disciple of someone to write in his master's name so as to give the master all the credit, even if many years separated them. Probably most biblical scholars today have doubts about David and Solomon writing the alleged books, but it's quite possible that those who strongly believed in them may have done the writings even if hundreds of years passed.

    The value of oral traditions eventually being penned decades to centuries later is commonplace in many religious traditions.
     
  11. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    To guess something is probably true or quite possible or strongly believed or have doubts has no credibility in presenting any reasonable evidence. But it is strongly embraced as a serious response by those who have nothing else to stand on. Anything but admit that the God of the Bible is Lord of all.
     
  12. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, but then we can't expect a writers living thousands of years ago to adhere to our modern system of classifications. The Hebrew word owph simply means "winged creature". As to rabbits, they re-ingest cecotropes. You left out the parable regarding the "mustard seed". [/quote]

    Christians/Jews don't really believe brass snake statues can cure snake bikes. What they do believe is God can make this possible.

    I've always considered it wise to get God's view on things and to listen to what He has to say. I understand its not an approach that works for everyone but it certainly works for me.
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    What I mentioned is a possibility, and my hypothesis is based on evidence in regards to the use of glottochronology to give approximate dates when X may have been written, plus what we do know about early Jewish writings, and I doubt that you have any substantial knowledge of the latter. What is your theory based on?

    In anthropology, we almost always "hedge our bets" largely because certainty is all too often not verifiable. We have "hypotheses", which must have some supporting evidence to support them so that we don't just jump to conclusions. What evidence do you have?

    IOW, I'm not using mere "guesses", but you certainly are since I can guarantee that you cannot come forth with any supporting evidence. Religious beliefs are largely not based on empirical evidence but on faith. If you doubt this, try and come forth with evidence to support your position, and let me remind you that "blind belief" is not the same as "evidence".
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I don't doubt that it is God's will but I believe He doesn't always get what He wants. So I believe the truth is that many resist His grace or simply ignore it.
     
  15. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    I just want to add that your remark about the brass snake demonstrates an extreme lack of Biblical awareness. In Numbers 21 God offered the remedy of Israel's sin. Those who believed God's word and looked, in faith, at the serpent on the lifted staff (representing their sin) were healed. This was also a foreshadowing of a future event.

    As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness , even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. John 3:14
     
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  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    So, I take it that you perceive the Roman Catholic church was correct in its translating since you quote it.

    I believe you have no way to determine that and it shows your hypocrisy.

    I don't believe this is true but obviously it is what JW's must teach if you are saying it. JWs don't say anything on their own , do they?

    I believe I have heard this mantra before. Our view is right because we interpret it as what Jesus says. That is nonsense.

    I believe that is a nasty accusation that has no basis in truth. We don't believe JW nonsense because it is nonsense.
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that is true but He is no less human.

    I don't see it that way though. I believe the only God, God has is Himself and that should go as a truism. However I do agree in Jesus, God is speaking from the perspective of the incarnation.
     
  18. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    No doubt it does. But you see, I happen to believe that if there is such a thing as "what He has to say," then it could not possibly be delivered in the way that religious messages are -- through revelation to very few with the expectation of perfect transmission to many. If there is a god (as I understand the term) and if that god wants me to know something important to both that god and me -- then I trust that I know it already.

    The Bible, the Qur'an, the Vedas and Granth Guru Sahib and so many other holy books, contain man's thoughts, not God's. Of this, I am absolutely certain for what seem to me completely clear and obvious reasons.
     
  19. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I have not read this thread but I will.My reply for the first post and OP is this.There is a scripture that says if you confess is Lord you will be saved.tThat the only scripture that gives you actual words to say to save yourself.

    There are many words the bible uses for Jesus Son of man Son of God Emanuel etc.

    Why is it that when I run into you Christians like my sister insisting upon the fact the bible says Jesus is God you demand me and other Christians verbalize Jesus is God.

    Is that a verbal ritual y'all use to feel like you've been saved.Requiring me to say Jesus is God is not in the bible.

    I'm not arguing the dirty if Jesus but the fact y'all you have to verbally say Jesus is God to be saved


    Find me a scripture outside of if you confess Jesus as Lord Lord isn't God.Find me one that specifically says I have to verbally say that.its a,made up ritual that's not biblical.You guys are imagining things.its a magical verbal incantation y'all make up
     
  20. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Sorry, but I think that takes too much "reading in" (eisegesis) and not enough exegesis.
     
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