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Featured The Bible and an over active imagination!

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JJ50, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    How do you know it predates Jesus? The oldest quotations in the Mishnah are from the Tannaim who date from about 10 CE to 220 CE. How do these predate Jesus?

    As for a king being born in Bethlehem, this should not be surprising that the Jewish teachers believed that Messiah would be like David, who was from Bethlehem.
     
    #81 Wandering Monk, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  2. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I had forgotten, but now I remember you mentioning your mom's PHD before. Of course she would understand figures of speech. Many people really don't really understand the full significance of them though. At least that's my experience.

    As far as reading it without personal interpretation, I wonder how you would feel if everybody that read your posts had a completely different idea as to what it is you are trying to say. There must be some folks out there who "interpret" your negative view of the scriptures as a cry for help. Now, I'm not saying that is the case, but I have a feeling that such an interpretation would lead you to say something like, "You moron, can't you read simple English?!!!" Maybe even worse.

    For what it's worth I'll give you this,

    2 Pet 1:20,

    Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
    The word "private" is the Greek word "idios" and literally means "one's own." God's intent was for the reader to just take it for what it says without adding any personal ideas. Isn't that the intent of anybody trying to communicate to others? But when it comes to the scriptures everybody seems to think there just has to be many interpretations. Yet another preconceived idea. It doesn't seem to matter that the book itself dissuades such an idea. People are so convinced that the scriptures need interpretation, that they just gloss over 2 Peter 1:20.

    Take care
     
  3. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    emphasis mine

    Hmm. Is the anti-christ Satan? Google seems to give mixed responses. However, it seems that the AntiChrist isn't much of anything until Satan helps him.

    Satan seems like a pretty smart dude. Why would he create an AntiChrist?

    By now, he's read the Bible and He knows that Jesus will not return until after the AntiCrhist makes an appearance. Until then, He just keeps doing what He has done for the past 2000 years. If he waits another 2,000,000,000,000 years before making an Anti-Christ, He knows Jesus can't return because that's what the Bible says.
     
  4. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    So, Genesis is the literal truth - Six days, tree, Cain, incest, Noah, Flood, etc.

    So, someone (Matthew?) accurately recorded all 2000+ words of the Sermon on the Mount.
     
  5. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Look it up....

    It was written... and that is where they figured it out.

    Sounds more like you just don't care.
     
  6. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    You made the assertion; back it up.
     
  7. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    I did... but you didn't care even with notations. Up to you, now, to prove that my information is wrong.
     
    #87 KenS, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
  8. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    I guess mathematically that overrides the belief of 1.8 billion Muslims.

    But can the beliefs of 2.4 billion Christians have more substance than the beliefs of 4,6 billion people who believe Christianity is wrong?

    Let the majority rule!
     
  9. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Why would God entrust Prophet Testing to you? In the grand scheme of things, you are a nobody. What qualifications do you have to serve as a Prophet Tester? Is there some Holy Roller University giving out PhDs in Prophet Testing?
     
  10. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    I think it is crazy to suggest that just because a lot of people believe in something it must be true, even though there is no evidence to support their belief.:rolleyes:
     
  11. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    What in the H. E. double-toothpicks does this have to do with homosexuals?

    You seem obsessed. And distraught.
     
  12. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    You gave sources, none of which backed your claim that the sources predated Jesus.
     
  13. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Do you attend church? Do you not listen to the preacher/minister/pastor give his interpretations of scripture? Do you not go to Bible study and get swayed by others' interpretations?
     
  14. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    don't agree
     
  15. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    Or not. The beauty of fr
    Very good! You seem to have understood exactly what I said without "interpreting" it. The Bible is the same way (2 Pet 1:20).

    Take care
     
  16. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    David Kimchi, 11th century CE: David Kimchi

    The oldest Targum found so far is Targum Job from the Dead Sea Cave, dated to the time of Herod:

    The Dead Sea Scrolls - 11Q Targum Job

    Targums Onkelos and Jonathan are the next oldest, dating to early first century during the period of the Tannaim.

    Targum Onkelos - Wikipedia

    Targum Jonathan - Wikipedia

    The earliest existing Midrashim date to the same era, that of the Tannaim.

    Midrash - Wikipedia

    So, you still need to provide a source that predates Jesus that show that he met Jewish prophecies of the messiah.
     
  17. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Sorry (ah) to gloss over, but really, that does
    not interest me.

    I was simply speaking to what comes next
    if the bible is to be read to the extent possible
    as a straightforward narrative of factual material.

    If that is how it is intended, it is a book of bs,
    at least in the magic realism parts, and a good
    deal else besides.

    IF on the other hand, on goes with the notion
    that with the right attitude, the so called "holy
    spirit" will guide your interpretin' then it is all
    "lo here" and, "lo there" from then on, free for
    all. The book says whatever anyone wants
    it to say.

    Which is one of the reasons it has been
    popular.

    I do not, btw have a "negative" view of your bible.
    Call it realistic, and, for that matter, I'd say i
    understand it better and appreciate it more than
    anyone who professes to be christian does.
     
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    For clarity, you figure that genesis is a true story
    and there really was a world wide flood?
     
  19. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    The beauty of "fr"?

    That's your response to ...
    So, Genesis is the literal truth - Six days, tree, Cain, incest, Noah, Flood, etc.
    So, someone (Matthew?) accurately recorded all 2000+ words of the Sermon on the Mount.







    That is a really poor analogy. I am one person "understanding" what you wrote. Even then, I did not understand what you meant by "fr".



    As regards the Bible, there are 4 billion people "understanding" it. All differently.


    List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia
    ...lists hundreds and hundreds. The list seems endless.
     
    #99 ecco, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  20. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    fr was going to be some word or another (I really forget now) that I meant to delete. I'm not sure of the exact key stroke sequence there. Nothing sinister going on.
     
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